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Thread: Throttle response to pedal problem in 4th gear. Scan inside.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron407 View Post
    I'm not sure if powerhop TM is governed under the master TCS switches, but it might be worth turning off those settings in your tune as they're still shown as enabled. I can see your speed jump a lot at your shift (about 12 MPH over 0.1 seconds), then come back down, which makes me think it's torque management of some kind and possibly powerhop.

    Maybe log the different torque management type PIDs, as well as delivered torque to see what's going on.

    ETC Torque Management Type
    Spark Torque Management Type
    Fuel Cut Torque Management Type
    Great feedback. I've got the car down for header coating right now but I will definitely give this some attention.

  2. #22
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    jatolbert (Will you post your tune so I can compare and see if I can find potential issues)


    here is my tune from a couple of days ago.

    5-16-16o2.hpt

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    Just watched the log for the first time - sorry should have done that to begin with - your not only cutting throttle, your cutting fuel and at a specific speed from the looks of it... What happens if you change your speed limiter settings?
    I just saw your post. Don't know how is skipped it.

    I wasn't sure if I was cutting fuel or if I was dropping to essentially a high idle point on the VE table. As soon as throttle cuts, the map drops to the low 60's which is roughly just above idle for my car. Therefore, I thought that it was getting out of PE and simply demanding a lot less fuel. It seems that the fuel cut occurs 1/4 of a second or more AFTER the throttle cut. It actually does not get leaner than commanded lamda until over 0.400 seconds after throttle cut. As for speed limiter, that is a good thought, but I made 3 of the same runs earlier in the day (all finishing 20 mph faster due to not loosing throttle in 4th) and did not lose fuel in those runs. I can post those scans too if desired. In those runs, I went from 0% pedal throttle to max pedal throttle as fast as I did in this run, the shift points were within 2-3 mph of each other without any of these same concerns. This run was an anomaly on the day, although it happened to me once or twice on the previous day. My primary speed limiter is 250 mph. I will max everything out just to make sure.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ke5gnz View Post
    jatolbert (Will you post your tune so I can compare and see if I can find potential issues)


    here is my tune from a couple of days ago.

    5-16-16o2.hpt
    I think I have an idea what the problem is. I think it could be the ETC area scalar. Engine>Idle>Aiflow>ETC Area Scalar. We are both way too low for the 102 mm TB. I'm at the stock 4725 (just realized it needs to be changed) and you are at 5060.25. The scalar for the 102 should be around 7100+/-. Do you think you could give that a try and see if it solves it? As soon as my headers get back and I bolt them on, I am going to try this.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jatolbert View Post
    I think I have an idea what the problem is. I think it could be the ETC area scalar. Engine>Idle>Aiflow>ETC Area Scalar. We are both way too low for the 102 mm TB. I'm at the stock 4725 (just realized it needs to be changed) and you are at 5060.25. The scalar for the 102 should be around 7100+/-. Do you think you could give that a try and see if it solves it? As soon as my headers get back and I bolt them on, I am going to try this.
    BTW, I think you'll have to retune the idle some when you do this in terms of base running airflow.

  6. #26
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    jatolbert

    I will change to see what happens on the way home and report back.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ke5gnz View Post
    jatolbert (Will you post your tune so I can compare and see if I can find potential issues)

    I will post a tune this afternoon
    Good deal. Keep in mind you may have to play with base running aiflow for it to idle correctly. If you can, save a scan and post what you find! Thanks.

  8. #28
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    ke5gnz: Did you get a chance to look at this? I'm very curious as to what you found.

    Josh

  9. #29
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    I have changed the info. but have yet to make a safe run as it was raining last week. Then my boost controller went south on me the new on will be here Wednesday hopefully get installed then and try for Thursday morning. I did have to change the Idle air flow and just fine tune the maf, sd was so close that I didn't mess with.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ke5gnz View Post
    I have changed the info. but have yet to make a safe run as it was raining last week. Then my boost controller went south on me the new on will be here Wednesday hopefully get installed then and try for Thursday morning. I did have to change the Idle air flow and just fine tune the maf, sd was so close that I didn't mess with.
    Rain?? What a lame excuse!

    Sounds good. We will get this issue figured out.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ke5gnz View Post
    jatolbert ( I've never had either of those codes. The one thing that jumps out that we have in common is the NW 102 TB. There maybe something with the TB that's the problem. )


    That could be but I would think that more people would be having this issue with as many NW 102's that are being utilized. I think it is something with the amount of airflow at a set RPM, Gear, Speed, and a portion of the ECM we cant change in the TAC settings. My ecm is the E38 and the TAC is VSS referenced. I might be totally off base here but with me being able to bring the throttle up slowly and acquire the 89%, yet if I nail it then I get the 38% and stay there until I let off. Have you tried to roll into the throttle when shifting to 4th vs nailing it. (Racing, who thinks wait I have to roll into the throttle)
    Reduce your Throttle Opening Rate to something like 3 (from 100) and try again... if it doesnt do it, increase to 6, then 10 and see if it's fixed. You likely wont notice a difference in power at 6 or 10, maybe 3.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU - Spark only). MS3X running complete RTT fuel control (wideband).
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jatolbert View Post
    Rain?? What a lame excuse!

    Sounds good. We will get this issue figured out.
    well finally got to log a pull this morning with the changes applied and no change. I also tried 10_ss's changes and nothing still 38% if the throttle in nailed and 88% when throttle is rolled on.

  13. #33
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    ke5gnz: Hmm. Interesting. Thanks for checking. I just noticed something else. Neither of us have the TCS patches enabled. Looks like I have accessibility to TCS patch and TCS patch 2 while you have access to TCS patch. Could you apply this patch under OS>TCS patch and see if that works? I'm not sure exactly what it does but it may be worth a try. You'll have to write entire instead of write calibration. GHuggins suggested this in post 6.

    Even though we both have torque management disabled, it may be worth while recording a scan including the torque management parameters suggested by Aaron407 in post 19. It also may be worth while to include traction control torque and desired torque to make sure torque management and traction control are not contributing. I know we both do not think this is the problem, though.

    Does your problem happen in a particular gear or is it in several gears? Could you post a scan to look at?

    My guess at this point is the problem is exactly what you said in your original post, throttle parameters (pedal to throttle map and opening rates or similar). When I get headers back and on the car in a few weeks, I may create a histogram in the scan that replicates the throttle maps to help see exactly what is going on an compare the desired throttle area to the commanded.


    Everyone Else: Would someone else chime in by posting a tune with a 102NW throttle body that has no issues of not going WOT? A turbo vehicle would be preferred since both ke5gnz and I are boosted. I would just like to go through the tune and attempt to find common differences between our tunes and a working tune.