VE tuning for supercharged camaro ZL1 or MAF only?

[nighttowl]

I recently had my car tuned and it has some issues which are mentioned in another thread; but I am wondering why many tuners use MAF only on these vehicles.
From looking at the stock tune, GM had the car running off the VE tables up to 3800 rpm.
Knowing that the tables can now be tuned, I'm wondering why MAF only?

[GHuggins]

Simple answer - it takes time and cost money A lot of tuners out there half ass things to get them in and out!!! If it's boosted, heck if the engine has had anything done to it that changes airflow - the VE table needs to be tuned - it IS used for ALL transient fuel calculations, torque calculations and so on... Tune it to 4000 rpms at the very lease and then you can look at the OE tune and "guestimate" the rest of the table if need be... THAT would be better then what you currently have from your tuner.... Then set dynamic to something like 2000 and 1900 - this will help with drive-ability and idle a lot...

[schpenxel]

Time and $$$. Oh, and halfassedness

[jsllc]

I recently had my car tuned and it has some issues which are mentioned in another thread; but I am wondering why many tuners use MAF only on these vehicles.
From looking at the stock tune, GM had the car running off the VE tables up to 3800 rpm.
Knowing that the tables can now be tuned, I'm wondering why MAF only?

Just so you know it uses a blended air model up to the RPM setting. Then MAF only. So it is simple for them to convert it to MAF only charge you for a tune send you out the door. Basically hide any issues and hope that you do not find them. I paid for 2 different organizations to do this to me before I realized what was happening. It just plain sucks.

[nighttowl]

Just so you know it uses a blended air model up to the RPM setting. Then MAF only. So it is simple for them to convert it to MAF only charge you for a tune send you out the door. Basically hide any issues and hope that you do not find them. I paid for 2 different organizations to do this to me before I realized what was happening. It just plain sucks.

This is why I am thinking to fix myself.

[JBZ]

Time and $$$. Oh, and halfassedness

For the price that i paid i was pretty unimpressed when i found out mine was tuned maf only. I have since tuned my vve myself. It seems the norm unfortunately. I would almost go as far as to say that maf inly tunes are dishonest. Its not as if the tuners that tune maf only ask their customers if thats ok, or offer an alternitive price point for sd tuning.

I appreciate the tuners...actual professionals that tune SD...it separates the boys from the men

[schpenxel]

Yeah, lot of tuners just throw in a close enough spark table that has worked for a similar setup before, change whatever injector data they have, set it to MAF only and get it close enough for a few WOT runs so customer has a pretty dyno graph and kick it out the door

I can understand them not spending the amount of time we spend on our own cars.. Customers would be pretty pissed if I drove their cars around for a month, lol.. But still they should be doing more than the minimum for the $500+ most charge

[DSteck]

Without a steady state dyno, it's hard to efficiently tune GMVE coefficients. Luckily, I have a Mainline hub dyno and did my own math parameter that dials in the GMVE while in MAF only mode.

Most shops/tuners have no business taking people's money. YGWYPF.

[schpenxel]

Because math

[JBZ]

YGWYPF.

I dont know that that is exactly a fair statement. I paid alot, but in my own defense...at the time of the tune i had no idea what i was getting. I probably should have done a better job asking what i was getting. Im under the impression that most people dont even know to ask what they have bought, they go with what others say as a good tuner. But you live and learn.

Your not to far from me so whein i get your flex fuel kit i may just schedule a tune with you.

You know the probelm with me now is that i would/will want to be part of the tuning process no matter who tunes my car, either myself or someone else. I may be fairly new to tuning but i know my way around it enough that i would want to be a part of every adjustment that is happening...

Im sure your probably rolling your eyes saying...oohh hes one of those pain in the asses, but its more for learning from the pros and not being a complete dumb ass that i want to see it, and be part of it. Plus its just that much more that when or if something came up in the future i would be able to trouble shoot and diagnose the problem myself. I like to be self sufficent at everything i do in life.

[DSteck]

For insurance reasons and safety of customers from a DSteck inflicted gunshot wound, nobody is allowed in the shop when we are doing a car. I am incredibly busy, and I'm not going back to the days of "what'd you change, why'd you do that, what's that table do, how come you didn't do that?". Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

You're right in that YGWYPF isn't totally true. Tons of places charge a ton of money for lackluster work. I was more gearing it towards the places charging pennies on the dollar for "the same thing".

[ABADZL1]

I have my ZL1 running maf only right now. I tried adjusting the VVE using bluecat back in the days of 2.24. After the 2nd round of copy and paste my car would never start. I want to tackle it again with the new HP VVE editor and see if I have any luck. Back when I tried it my VVE graph looked like the rocky mountains. Trying to build up the nerve to try again.

[GHuggins]

I have my ZL1 running maf only right now. I tried adjusting the VVE using bluecat back in the days of 2.24. After the 2nd round of copy and paste my car would never start. I want to tackle it again with the new HP VVE editor and see if I have any luck. Back when I tried it my VVE graph looked like the rocky mountains. Trying to build up the nerve to try again.

What I've found to work best is to only multiply by percent if out by 5 or more percent - use half below that Also MAKE SURE your data-logging with identical axis in your scanner as to what you've got your tune setup for...

Then finally smooth the whole modified section at least 1 time each time you make a change - look at the 3d graph then maybe smooth again if need be... Then of course create coefficients and make sure it doesn't throw it back out too bad

If it wasn't cranking - it may be because you started scanning before the engine was running - this will throw weird corrections into the "start up" cells, so just make sure it's running and getting good data before trying to use it for corrections being made...

Otherwise I think you'll like the built in setup...

[ABADZL1]

I drove around for about 30 minutes before logging each time. Didnt the want any rich after flash data. I'll try again soon and see how it goes

[dreksnot]

I dont know that that is exactly a fair statement. I paid alot, but in my own defense...at the time of the tune i had no idea what i was getting. I probably should have done a better job asking what i was getting. Im under the impression that most people dont even know to ask what they have bought, they go with what others say as a good tuner. But you live and learn.

Your not to far from me so whein i get your flex fuel kit i may just schedule a tune with you.

You know the probelm with me now is that i would/will want to be part of the tuning process no matter who tunes my car, either myself or someone else. I may be fairly new to tuning but i know my way around it enough that i would want to be a part of every adjustment that is happening...

Im sure your probably rolling your eyes saying...oohh hes one of those pain in the asses, but its more for learning from the pros and not being a complete dumb ass that i want to see it, and be part of it. Plus its just that much more that when or if something came up in the future i would be able to trouble shoot and diagnose the problem myself. I like to be self sufficent at everything i do in life.

13567361_10210141603842308_5651853302264558571_n.jpg

[schpenxel]

13567361_10210141603842308_5651853302264558571_n.jpg

lol

[dreksnot]

What I've found to work best is to only multiply by percent if out by 5 or more percent - use half below that Also MAKE SURE your data-logging with identical axis in your scanner as to what you've got your tune setup for...

Then finally smooth the whole modified section at least 1 time each time you make a change - look at the 3d graph then maybe smooth again if need be... Then of course create coefficients and make sure it doesn't throw it back out too bad

If it wasn't cranking - it may be because you started scanning before the engine was running - this will throw weird corrections into the "start up" cells, so just make sure it's running and getting good data before trying to use it for corrections being made...

Otherwise I think you'll like the built in setup...

I presume you're referring to using 2.24 (and BlueCat) and not 3.2 (using the VVE tables). I was under then full assumption that only the VE tables needed massaging.

[JBZ]

13567361_10210141603842308_5651853302264558571_n.jpg

so your saying I owe $325 then cause it should take longer than an hour LOL


I do like the sign though

[GHuggins]

I presume you're referring to using 2.24 (and BlueCat) and not 3.2 (using the VVE tables). I was under then full assumption that only the VE tables needed massaging.

After you make changes to your VVE table you have to create coefficients - otherwise no changes will actually be made in the tune... The built in VVE tool is still just a tool - like bluecats - it was just made to where you couldn't use the bluecat in the newer versions Hope this better explains things...

[GHuggins]

13567361_10210141603842308_5651853302264558571_n.jpg

Wish we could charge that - lol - Is this an actual sign somewhere?