Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Mustang 2016 popping and rumble .. & LTFT learning

  1. #1
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    13

    Mustang 2016 popping and rumble .. & LTFT learning

    Hello , am tuning mustang 2016 and there are a lot of differences between this model and the previous one .. So I would like to know how to achieve popping and rumble in deceleration .. I know a lot of you guys will tell me .. DFCO and timing .. But I couldn't achieve what I want so far ... So kindly if any one knows how to do it please at least give me a small hint .. I know popping has to do with retard the timing and cutting the fuel .. But as you know I can't do this on the mapped table since the car using a blend .. the second subject is .. How to force the car to populate LTFT at idle I want to caliber the maf but no LTFT is showing .. I know I have to drive the car to make it activated .. I need to use LTFT because it's much accurate than the short term ... One last thing .. When am gathering the periods vs maf vs STFT data and copy the table to multiply it on the tune file its not working .. I have to record the valus and do it one by one .. Any one know why is this happening !!!? Please help thanks

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    1,443
    spark only torque ratio table second blank box below cruise. That should be torque based decel torque ratio. set it to 1 and that should get rid of any spark advance. In the fuel cut torque ratio tables you will need to do the same but set the value to 0. that gets rid of the DFCO.

    After that you need to use the optimal stability tables under VCT to set it up to use one or two tables on decel. I recommend two for the IMRC to remain open that way you get more air for bigger bangs. Modify those tables timing.
    Last edited by murfie; 07-31-2016 at 03:05 AM.
    "We can never be right, we can only be sure that we are wrong"- feynman

  3. #3
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    spark only torque ratio table second blank box below cruise. That should be torque based decel torque ratio. set it to 1 and that should get rid of any spark advance. In the fuel cut torque ratio tables you will need to do the same but set the value to 0. that gets rid of the DFCO.

    After that you need to use the optimal stability tables under VCT to set it up to use one or two tables on decel. I recommend two for the IMRC to remain open that way you get more air for bigger bangs. Modify those tables timing.

    I found the tables you described for me .. The fuel cut torque ratio & spark only torque ration .. Under cruise there are 9 blanks levels .. Valued by 0.00 from up to down .. You said the second blank under cruise so .. I leave the first blank under cruise as it is and change the second one to 1.00 ..and the other table to zero .. I just want to confirm so I don't miss up .. Sorry ..

    And for the second part ... Under variable Camshaft .. I have only one table under optimal staibility which called "enable Max load" note that the table axis is rpm vs desired load not timing .. So please let me know what you think ..

    There is another section called optimum stability under IMRC tabe .. Hi rpm position , low rpm position , threshold RPM and hysteresis..

    Am not sure which one you were referring to?

    Thanks ..

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    1,443
    stability.PNG

    green square is stability mode enabled below load.
    blue sqquare are the mapped points used in stability mode
    red square is your distance table. This is the Y axis or the blue square. The red square also gives you RPM.

    so between these tables you can setup the load/RPM/Mapped points you want to use during decel.

    you then modify spark in the mapped points you chose to use.


    ratio.PNG
    Hope this clears up the torque ratio tables.
    Last edited by murfie; 07-31-2016 at 09:12 AM. Reason: better picture
    "We can never be right, we can only be sure that we are wrong"- feynman

  5. #5
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    stability.PNG

    green square is stability mode enabled below load.
    blue sqquare are the mapped points used in stability mode
    red square is your distance table. This is the Y axis or the blue square. The red square also gives you RPM.

    so between these tables you can setup the load/RPM/Mapped points you want to use during decel.

    you then modify spark in the mapped points you chose to use.



    ratio.PNG
    Hope this clears up the torque ratio tables.
    Yes for the location of the tables yes , but for how these 3 tables work together no ..! Am scratching my head right now trying to figure it out .. Could you Guide me through this please am lost .. What dose these values stand for .. I just want to understand what am looking at .. 😓😓😓

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    2,159
    dont over complicate it, mapped points will be the spark tables that are selected you have 24
    E-tuning/remote Tuning Sultan@mastuning.net Follow @MASTUNING Contact/Whatsapp +966555366161
    [URL="http://www.mastuningsaudi.com"]

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    1,443
    Its not too complicated. Here is what I'm saying to do:

    First off mapped points work off weights so these tables are more like guides and will not be used 100% based on what you say but, used enough that modifying them will produce results because they will be weighted more.

    Stability mode is enabled when ever the load is below 0.13. Basically when you are not on the throttle and moving or just let off the gas from a free rev up of the engine.

    Change your stability distance table to 3's in rpms above 2000 and at operating temperatures. This way It uses table 22 in stead of 22, 0, 1 ,and 2. This is not necessary but it does help.
    stability mod.PNG

    Next go to your spark borderline mapped point 22 and modify the low load high RPMS with retarded spark. This way you don't get good combustion and unburned gas enters the exhaust.
    spark mod.PNG

    Finally modify your VCT exhaust closing of mapped point 22 start at 0 and work your way up to 50 and see what gives you the best results.
    vct mod.PNG

    This may have unexpected or unwanted long term effects on valves, exhaust flanges, spark plugs, cats, ect. I wouldn't recommend keeping it like this. Pops and bangs sound cool but it is wear and tear for essentially entertainment.
    "We can never be right, we can only be sure that we are wrong"- feynman

  8. #8
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    dont over complicate it, mapped points will be the spark tables that are selected you have 24
    Yes you are completely right ... But when I was talking about the mapped points they were under VCT tabe .. Which mean they are the mapped points of the VCT not timing ... I saw the video of how dose the car weigh and use the blend of the "spark mapped points" but never find a real demonstration of VCT mapped points .. I did some reading regards this Subject and I found that the mustang also uses a blend of mapped points of the VCT ... That what made my head spins to understand how these mapped points blend work together .. Is there a certain strategy !! I don't know ... 😅.. And these values 3's and 2's and one'S stand for what .. I need to read more I think .. Thanks

  9. #9
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    13
    Thank you very much .. For this information , God bless you 😁😁😁😁

  10. #10
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    13

    why ??!!

    LOG 7.hplLOG 6.hplLOG3.hpl
    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    Its not too complicated. Here is what I'm saying to do:

    First off mapped points work off weights so these tables are more like guides and will not be used 100% based on what you say but, used enough that modifying them will produce results because they will be weighted more.

    Stability mode is enabled when ever the load is below 0.13. Basically when you are not on the throttle and moving or just let off the gas from a free rev up of the engine.

    Change your stability distance table to 3's in rpms above 2000 and at operating temperatures. This way It uses table 22 in stead of 22, 0, 1 ,and 2. This is not necessary but it does help.
    stability mod.PNG

    Next go to your spark borderline mapped point 22 and modify the low load high RPMS with retarded spark. This way you don't get good combustion and unburned gas enters the exhaust.
    spark mod.PNG

    Finally modify your VCT exhaust closing of mapped point 22 start at 0 and work your way up to 50 and see what gives you the best results.
    vct mod.PNG

    This may have unexpected or unwanted long term effects on valves, exhaust flanges, spark plugs, cats, ect. I wouldn't recommend keeping it like this. Pops and bangs sound cool but it is wear and tear for essentially entertainment.
    I followed exactly what you instructed me here .. the car wont pop and rumble loool... as I notice the car wasn't using mapped point 22 that much as the scanner showed me ,only when the rpm cross the 4000 rpm then it comes to 100% weight , but as soon I leave the throttle it will weight much less which mean that table 22 is not used much.. and it was using other mapped points like mapped point 0, 1 , 2 , 3, 4 , 5, 6 , 7 , 8 it was blending all these tables together ... these mapped point was logged only because I was so carious which mapped points it was using .. I increased the EVC to earlier degree ( I tried from 0 to 40) hoping that letting the mixture escape earlier would help but still no pop sound ... also I tried to increase the max load to force the car enter stability mod at earlier load but when I did that the car started to hesitate to start up.. same for the other mapped points, I tried to retard the timing in them but also it gave me the same hesitation of start... so, here some of my logs it may clear what am trying to explain .. hoping that you guide me to solve this issue ...
    LOG2.hplLOG3.hplLOG 6.hplLOG 7.hpl

  11. #11
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    1,443
    I made the changes on my car myself and ran into the same as you did. I was missing a few things and mentioned some unnecessary things. Sorry.

    1. under your IMRC change stability threshold from 4000 to 1500.
    IMRC.PNG

    2. modify your DFCO so that it is disabled above 0 load and enables at 0 mph. You can lower the enable RPM and MPH if you wish to.
    DFCO.PNG

    3. modify 14 and 15 borderline and mbt spark tables in the lowest loads above 2000 rpm.
    poptiming.PNG

    4. only change fuel cut torque ratio cell to 0. Leave spark torque ratio cell as is.

    This video is before I modified the IMRC stability threshold as you can see it needed to go above 4000 for it to do it. after the IMRC mod it is what ever RPM you set it to.
    https://youtu.be/VFog0fsvjlg
    "We can never be right, we can only be sure that we are wrong"- feynman

  12. #12
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    13
    I will give it a try .. Thank you very much...

  13. #13
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    13
    It pops as you said .. Thanks . Was thinking to increase the rate of the poping I would increase the number of cells with retarded timing .. As I imagine .. Any way thank you and God bless you

  14. #14
    Now what about flames


    I would imagine pretty much the same. But need to dump fuel.....how?

  15. #15
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    48
    what changes to do same thing on 11_14

  16. #16
    Potential Tuner svvag2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    I made the changes on my car myself and ran into the same as you did. I was missing a few things and mentioned some unnecessary things. Sorry.

    1. under your IMRC change stability threshold from 4000 to 1500.
    IMRC.PNG

    2. modify your DFCO so that it is disabled above 0 load and enables at 0 mph. You can lower the enable RPM and MPH if you wish to.
    DFCO.PNG

    3. modify 14 and 15 borderline and mbt spark tables in the lowest loads above 2000 rpm.
    poptiming.PNG

    4. only change fuel cut torque ratio cell to 0. Leave spark torque ratio cell as is.

    This video is before I modified the IMRC stability threshold as you can see it needed to go above 4000 for it to do it. after the IMRC mod it is what ever RPM you set it to.
    https://youtu.be/VFog0fsvjlg
    Hi
    but why chose these 14 and 15 spark tables?
    Last edited by svvag2000; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:30 AM.

  17. #17
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    432
    Quote Originally Posted by svvag2000 View Post
    Hi
    but why chose these 14 and 15 spark tables?
    Using Murphie's technique requires you to lower the IMRC Optimum Stability Threshold from 4000 RPM to 1500 RPM. So the IMRC's are opened during deceleration down to 1500RPM.
    You change the distances to use the cam angles from MP 22, IVO 15, EVC 15.
    Having the IVO at 15* will share weight with 14, 15, and 22. 14 IVO is 0*, 15 IVO is 30*. those two will share weight by blending together for the IVO 15*. MP 22 will hold weight for both IVO, and will be the main weight for EVC 15*
    In a perfect world, they would each hold 33%. But I'm sure there is a lot of blending going on while driving.

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner veeefour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    658
    Quote Originally Posted by svvag2000 View Post
    Hi
    but why chose these 14 and 15 spark tables?
    Depends on your tune - for Murf it's 14 and 15 on decel, for you it might be different. Log and observe which MP's are used on decel:

    https://www.facebook.com/veee.perfor...2625073820972/