How are these shops getting over 1K hp Out of the stock LT4 fuel Systems???

[machineworks]

I do know that they have a helper lift pump.....But how do you get the high pressure pump and injectors to each up???? I know they use meth too, but only two nozzles.

[DSteck]

Lots and lots of meth.

[Area47]

secondary injection, meth, fuel injectors, additional port injection, hopes and dreams.

[schpenxel]

Dat meth

[Higgs Boson]

Tuned by Heisenberg

[Ben Charles]

Cam lobe on lt4 hardware will do 750rwhp on pump gas 93 non flex fuel) then they get the additional fueling mainly from meth... Most running close to 30gph 100% meth..

Helping a buddy on an f1x c7 z06 right now that has cam lobe CPR low pressure side and we have 3 14gph nozzles on 100% meth

[schpenxel]

Think I'd be trying to do a direct port meth setup of some sort if I was depending on it that much

[MarkTucker]

Yupp, Methanol and...

Seen one from another local shop near me running a port injection system along with factory system. Port Injection system being controlled via Haltech.

[schpenxel]

FSP I assume

[MarkTucker]

FSP I assume

Yupp!

[schpenxel]

Last I heard they were talking about turning the DI injectors off and running it off the Haltech 100%. Haven't heard anything else about it though in a bit

[MarkTucker]

I haven't heard much lately either.

[machineworks]

We do 8 extra injectors with a AEM. But I keep seeing these 1k supposed cars.... I think most of them are bs tho.

[machineworks]

We don't and won't build our cars to live on meth. Not the correct way to do it. Just making sure I am not missing something.

[rjw]

have you ever seen a meth fire?

[Redline MS]

We do 8 extra injectors with a AEM. But I keep seeing these 1k supposed cars.... I think most of them are bs tho.

We've seen alot of internet BS with numbers but at the end of the day its raw physics. I will say that many are still missing the concept behind injection timing as a place to better take advantage of the factory fuel supply. I have never been a huge fan of meth but in this new world of DI it has proven to work pretty well AS LONG AS its setup properly. We employ several backup counter measures in the event the system takes a crap....you have to have some due diligence when relying on a support system so its a must to design the install past its simplicity.

I will also add that we have done a crap load of testing on where and how "fuels" are injected into a DI engine and there impact to the mix in the cylinder. DI is already an irritable concept for combustion mixing that when we start adding meth, nitrous/fuel mixes it gets really tricky to get it all mixed PROPERLY. This goes back to something I brought up a few months ago pertaining to is the lambda reading real or just the byproduct of a poor combustion event. If the meth doesn't mix well lets say in a heavy dosed direct port and the lambda is .75 but you want .82.... you instinct is to lean it up but in reality its not a ratio problem but a mix problem. This is where a 5 gas is handy..

Meth was always a cooling/octane adder but now its a fuel source so it needs to be setup differently.. but the shit works great.

[GHuggins]

So, when are you doing training classes Howard. I think you've made some pretty decent strides on the Gen 5 and newer platforms. I would personally love to learn the 5gas aspects of it.

I'm almost certain that's why I get the power gains that I can get on the Gen 4s is because I'm inevitably changing the concentration of fuel in the combustion chamber without changing the air fuel ratios leading to more resistance to knock and more power and torque.

If you're interested in doing training, let me know

[mbray01]

With cams there is a lot of fueling to be had
geoff skinner and kip fabre spent a lot of time developing a good fuel lobe. I have used them and trust me they work, exceptionally well

[schpenxel]

So, when are you doing training classes Howard. I think you've made some pretty decent strides on the Gen 5 and newer platforms. I would personally love to learn the 5gas aspects of it.

I'm almost certain that's why I get the power gains that I can get on the Gen 4s is because I'm inevitably changing the concentration of fuel in the combustion chamber without changing the air fuel ratios leading to more resistance to knock and more power and torque.

If you're interested in doing training, let me know

Me too

[Redline MS]

So, when are you doing training classes Howard. I think you've made some pretty decent strides on the Gen 5 and newer platforms. I would personally love to learn the 5gas aspects of it.

I'm almost certain that's why I get the power gains that I can get on the Gen 4s is because I'm inevitably changing the concentration of fuel in the combustion chamber without changing the air fuel ratios leading to more resistance to knock and more power and torque.

If you're interested in doing training, let me know

Ha! The long and the short of this is that many shouldn't be playing with a laptop with software to modify any controller without a good understanding of how the internal combustion engine works. Then understand physics and then a bit of chemistry. I'm sure every GM engineer has those under his belt and for good reason.....ITS ALL NEEDED!

Now most of us here don't carry those credentials but there is plenty of low hanging fruit to get a grip on it relative to understanding. I'm sure most guys on this site never got there hands on a carb but even back then the same stuff applied.. There are so many factors that effect how we fuel and spark a combustion chamber and after enough years it starts to make sense because it is physics.

Fueling is a bit more literal to understand.....until now....if you can properly calibrate a controller to where the actual airflow is exactly what the controller acknowledges your half way through the battle. This is in more then one way as its also tied to the "torque" value which obviously is heavily intertwined in the E92. The other half of the fueling battle is the anticipated fuel delivery. This would be tied to the injectors as well as high pressure pump delivery. In the case of DI (for now.....wait until end of September ) those values are a constant. NOTE: Fuel delivery is also effected by pressure.

I use this example all the time but it will help make sense.....

We've all made lemonade...or ice tea.... if you look at the water as the air and the sugar as the fuel you can understand that we are about to put a ratio together. If its 2 quarts of water to one scoop of sugar we should end up with the perfect tasting drink. We will call that stoich. If I want to make more we will double everything in proportion but always end of at the same ratio...now.........what if we pour the sugar in slow and it all sinks to the bottom.....we still have the correct ratio but we didn't mix it.....now the dart board is swing on the wall with a chain....

This is where the 5 gas comes into play...now we can really figure out whats not being burned... so when you read a lambda of .73 its not because the ratio is off but its not mixing....not burning and then buzzing by your lambda sensor making you think its rich.....so you go and finger blast the laptop until you lean it up. Now you have screwed up the proper air model and also messed up the torque model.....

We could go all night with this but I don't think I have enough battery left on my laptop. For all you guys with 2 post looking for the golden file......get off the HPT site and go start reading on how engines work! These controllers are very complicated and trust me even the guys that are in it deep here still scratch there ass's. I wore a hole in mine many a night!

I am working with someone else in the industry regarding some training stuff and hope we can put something together in a few months...