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Thread: Tuning VVT cams for a lopey idle

  1. #1

    Tuning VVT cams for a lopey idle(file added from a claimed GC tune)

    I know I'm going to get a lot of crap over asking this question. There are some of us with some really wild tunes on the stock cams but what about tuning in a LOPEY cam setting? There are people that want the popping sound during Decel and that's easily done with some DFCO settings. But what about a LOPEY cam setting at an idle?
    I'm assuming that since we can adjust the lope separation and overlap on the VVT cams at any point we want, has anyone tried to configure a settings to calibrate the cams to create a lopey idle?
    My personal vehicle is now producing about 40-50hp over stock N/A with some tuning adjustments based on CAL files (won't get into details) and it sounds like a daily driven stock vehicle.
    There's got to be a simple settings for the VVT motor to create the LOPE.....
    Any idea's?
    Last edited by brr; 08-28-2021 at 12:17 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    not gonna happen with VVT, you can make some ignition changes only
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  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner RandomEnthusiast's Avatar
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    Since it's a single cam motor you can't exactly make the overlap change just the valve timing by either retarding or advancing the cam at idle which I would think would cause weird issues. I think if it was dual vvt overhead cams you might be able to. I don't really think it's a super desirable thing. I have a stock aside from rockers and tbi mods and a couple little things 4.3l from 93. I retarded the timing a little and add a crap ton of fuel to get the desired lope effect. Idles like crap, wants to stall etc. It's not really worth it. I was just playing with it. Plus it like to burn up converters when you do that.

  4. #4
    It is a dohc vvt motor. The cam durations and centerlines are completely adjustable in a tune file. On my engine in particular an example is the stock Cal has the optimal intake/exhaust cam position centerlines ranging from 88-128 centerline and the durations from 72-144. It of course is depending on many different parameters. I was not sure if someone has actually sat down and played with the VVT settings to basically "Create" a lope.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by brr View Post
    It is a dohc vvt motor. The cam durations and centerlines are completely adjustable in a tune file. On my engine in particular an example is the stock Cal has the optimal intake/exhaust cam position centerlines ranging from 88-128 centerline and the durations from 72-144. It of course is depending on many different parameters. I was not sure if someone has actually sat down and played with the VVT settings to basically "Create" a lope.
    Exactly what motor is this?

  6. #6
    It's the 3.6 Pentastar engine
    From what I've gathered, not too many people have played around with the tuning of the cams on the motor. The cams I've not really messed to much around with as there are too many variables. I'm used to the old school cams with preset lobe separation/duration/lift and I'm trying to apply that to a variable cam setup. I know its tricky and that's why I have not touched the settings for them just yet. Looking at the various options of the cam timings it seems a basic lopey idle would not be that difficult to calibrate into the profiles.

  7. #7
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    I've played around a lot with the pentastar cam timing on blown JK's.
    The factory swings the cams all over the place for emissions reasons.
    Gains can be had NA and especially supercharged.
    But all my tuning has been for better response/power, not to create a lopey idle.
    The cams are small so it may be a struggle without absolutely messing up the performance.

  8. #8
    Hello. Do you need to disable ANN to make VVT changes?

  9. #9
    Hemituna, thanks for the reply.
    I noticed that the cams are all over the place which is one thing that threw me off, like the cam dip in the midrange. I'll continue with other adjustments for now and leave the cam lope on the table for another time.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Wilde View Post
    Hello. Do you need to disable ANN to make VVT changes?
    No

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by brr View Post
    Hemituna, thanks for the reply.
    I noticed that the cams are all over the place which is one thing that threw me off, like the cam dip in the midrange. I'll continue with other adjustments for now and leave the cam lope on the table for another time.
    If you know anything about what cam timing numbers 4v engines like, you will see that the cams are all over the place.
    The factory is not stupid, it is for emissions...mainly NOX reduction at the expense of more CO and reduced performance.
    But hey, they have regs to comply with...If you rationalise the cam timing (part throttle and WOT), the engine will respond great.

  12. #12
    Hemituna.....Thumbs up!!!
    With that said, not only retuning the cams will aid in more power as the factory has them tuned for emissions. We could still basically program a lope if wanted.

  13. #13
    Look to the Ford Coyote guys to see what they're doing with their "Ghost Cam" tunes. Bear in mind you don't know what stock piston to valve clearance is and it's possible to crash the valves by putting in the wrong number.

  14. #14
    Monzsta,
    I'll take a look to see what there doing.
    Thanks again

  15. #15
    Advanced Tuner RandomEnthusiast's Avatar
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    Ok so You're playing with the pentastar. I thought this was a hemi. You could make it lope I would think. I have not even looked at this at all on these engines.

  16. #16
    Random,
    Not many people have done too much with the 3.6 motor. I've been reading about the "Ghost Cam" for the Mustang crowd but it seems no one is opening up on what they did on a Mustangs VVT setup. I've just recently watch some videos of the 3.7 Mustang motor with the "Ghost Cam" settings and it does not sound that bad...lol
    I'm still messing with other settings on my motor in the meantime while reading about the "Ghost Cams". If I find out anything I'll post it here unless someone else already has the info and posts it first.
    Thanks again

  17. #17
    ok,
    Now some of the big tuners have had there hands on the VVT tuning of the 3.6 engine. Any recommendations on the cam settings as there is a threshold because it is an interference engine. There is a minimum of the LSA and centerline programmed into the pcm, but it does not specify where the minimum is in the RPM band as its programmed into the Neural Network and not the cam timing.
    But the next question is if its programmed into the Neural Network, does this mean it is the max setting for the cam without interference? For example the Minimum centerline for the Ex is 70deg LSA and the intake is 79deg LSA. Does this tell me that this is the minimum at idle or overall?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Wilde View Post
    Hello. Do you need to disable ANN to make VVT changes?
    Nope

  19. #19
    I'm still holding off making any adjustments as I have a list of:
    Min & Max int and ex centerlines
    Optimal int & ex LSA's
    Normal mode, low and high BP's per cam
    Some of these settings are outside of the HPtuners software, but I'm sure someone here knows what I'm talking about. I'm still researching the "Ghost Cam" and I have the idea on what to do. But my problem is if I make the adjustments, am I going to throw a valve threw a piston at an idle. The wide LSA should get me the so called "Ghost Tune" or lopey idle, but I'm curious on if I make the duration adjustments if I'm going to hit a piston. It will be my luck If I widen the duration by 5 degrees that the valve will hit the piston...lol

  20. #20
    Advanced Tuner RandomEnthusiast's Avatar
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    In all honesty I would personally check piston to valve clearances in the engine before even trying this.