lethal racing cam tune help?

[coachpaul13]

Having some idle and a little bit of jerking issues up to 2100. long tubes,no cats,stock pipes to magnaflow mufflers, k&n cai. cam is233/242 .629 lift 113+3. we tuned it out on dyno, made 475rwhp and 451rwtq in 90 degree,88 % humidity. here is a log I recoerded this morning. any help would be much appreciated. thanks in advance.
Paul

[5FDP]

For sure needs some work on the VVE and MAF to correct your fuel trims, they went to 16.4+ at the beginning of the log. On the small chance it's a vacuum leak but likely needs other tuning.

Being that it was dyno tuned I bet VVE was disable and it runs MAF only because nobody takes the time to do a "full" tune on GEN 4 cars.

[schpenxel]

Those seem like some pretty big swings in fuel trims while cruising. I see some spots that are over 14%. Also, I don't see a wideband reading

Are the closed loop proportional and integral settings stock?

And like previously stated.. VE tables need to at least be in the ballpark, even on a MAF only tune. VE is still used for transients. Most tuners are too lazy to do that because it's like 50 cells to tune vs. several hundred.

[coachpaul13]

thanks for the response. I will check in for a leak tomorrow. I'm pretty sure it was tuned with maf only. I'm new to tuning this way. I'm an old schooler ...lol. here is the tune that's on it. any suggestions would be appreciated. thanks

[5FDP]

Yeah it's a MAF tune only. Timing table looks kinda funky too.

Why did they disable every single DTC?

You'd never be able to know if something went wrong.....

[coachpaul13]

oh wow...not sure on that one. should tune the ve first.

[coachpaul13]

oh wow...not sure on that one. should tune the ve first? then maf?

[schpenxel]

Timing tables look strange, especially in 800 RPM and under areas

Idle tables look dumber

VVE data is 100% stock, no good for a car with a cam like this one

At least they didn't screw with the knock retard settings

And yeah, DTC's.. what the heck were they thinking?

[coachpaul13]

I'm glad you guys looked at the DTC. I wouldn't have looked until the light came on......... which would have been never..lol
looks like I have some tuning to do. any advice on where to start? thanks

[Codes]

Start by putting your stock timing tables back in, Hi Lo look the same, no safety margin. Is this vehicle a daily?

[coachpaul13]

yes it is. I'm flying out of town for a few days. ill mess with it when I get back. thanks for the info. keep it coming I'm going to need all the help I can get..lol

[GHuggins]

You say "WE" tuned this on the dyno - did you partake in the tuning? Or did a "tuner" do this? I'm trying to be nice here, but there's quite a bit of interesting things in this one I would say start over, but how bad does it actually run or drive? Sounds bad from the description? It's going to need A LOT of work - just a heads up on that one...

You might also want to move this over to the gen 4 section as it's not direct injected

[schpenxel]

Moved

[coachpaul13]

I apologize for posting in the wrong place. I bought this car with no mods. I installed headers and CAI and HP tuners. I looked at a few tunes, talked to a few people that had the same mods. I did all the mods on that tune. Ran good. Took to the track and made some passes and a few adjustments, best time was a 12.80 at 113 on regular tires. When I installed the cam I knew I was going to need help on the tune. So I took to local shop and we put on dyno. Not idling, bucking a little up to 2500 or so, after that ran smooth. Made 464 first pull. By the 3rd pull it made 478. 95? and 90℅ humidity, I thought was decent. So he was trying to work out the drivability and it went from worse to bad back to worse...not sure . I did lean in and try to see what he was doing but I didn't want to insult him. Like I said this kind of tuning is not what I'm used too. I have the tunes from before and they look nothing like that one.....not sure what happened. Thank for your help and time. Think I will start with the old tune and go from there. Thanks Paul

[GHuggins]

Post the old tune and we can go from there. The one above has really messed up idle air tables, idle timing tables and then the never seen cel - I understand why he did the low rpm timing like he did, but he should have made it flow and not just all one number and then go from there to a big dip and then climb back up No biggie posting in the wrong area - just some get "intense" if you do - I got jumped on pretty bad a long while back for it myself

[coachpaul13]

Ok thanks a bunch. I will do as soon as I get back sunday.

[njedwardz]

I have a cam very similar to the NightFury cam (0.5% difference) that was designed by a former employee of Lethal. The most important part of the tuning was VVE and idle tuning. To get the thing running properly, you need a high quality wideband (I use TechEdge) and some patience. Once you have the car idling well enough that it doesn't randomly die on you (go ahead and set the idle nice and high for this), adjust the VVE until you see <2% error in all cells (or whatever percent you consider to be acceptable). At that point you can really dial in the spark and idle tables, then re-enable the MAF and dial that in as well. There's no reason for this setup to disable either the MAP or MAF permanently, although some lazy tuners will do it anyway because it's less work.

With a bit of time invested on your part (or money for your tuner's time), you can easily make the car idle like stock at 700 RPM. After I did the above I honestly went back in and roughened the idle because the car barely sounded any different than the stock cam setup. Even so, still no bucking at idle or with the converter locked and cruising.

I personally use EFILive for my engine tuning as that's what I started with (purchased HPT for trans tables and it's much better on that front), but I'm sure the tuning approach is much the same.

The problem is that doing a tune like this takes time, no matter your experience level. Realistically, you're looking at quite a few hours of dedicated data logging to really dial it in to an acceptable percentage so you don't have to rely on the O2 trims to fix things constantly. A little error is okay, but IMO if its constantly correcting by more than 6%, it's not running right.

[coachpaul13]

Post the old tune and we can go from there. The one above has really messed up idle air tables, idle timing tables and then the never seen cel - I understand why he did the low rpm timing like he did, but he should have made it flow and not just all one number and then go from there to a big dip and then climb back up No biggie posting in the wrong area - just some get "intense" if you do - I got jumped on pretty bad a long while back for it myself

[SultanHassanMasTuning]

start with this

BASE TUNE.hpt

starting from scratch basically

PM'd you as well

[coachpaul13]

thanks for the info. I appreciate all the help I can get.