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Thread: Early 04 Dyno Results

  1. #1

    Early 04 Dyno Results

    Chris Jewett early 04 dyno.jpg

    Here's a dyno graph from an early 04 that I tuned yesterday. It was a brand X mobile dyno. This is a stock truck, breathing through stock airbox, stock muffler is gone with a small mbrp in it's place. 449hp and 983tq. This truck runs smooth, no timing pop at all, responsive, smoke free power. Glad that the early common rails can finally be tuned right!

  2. #2
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    Awesome! So he341? What boost and egt? Also if you don't mind all the questions, what duration and pressure are you logging on the top end?

  3. #3
    cj2.hpl
    Chris Jewett Tenacity Tuning update.hpt

    yes he341, boost spikes to 40+ but fades down to 35ish on the top end. I'll throw you guys a bone and post up the tune and log. 3200us, 25000psi rail. Holds rail pressure just fine. Decent running truck. Still needs some tweaks in the pilot timing as it's a bit rattly still but goes good.
    Last edited by Dom_c13b; 09-26-2016 at 10:34 AM.

  4. #4
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    looks awesome man, but im pretty curious how at that duration and timing, egts didn't skyrocket and have a smokey mess on that baby turbo. cool nonetheless!

  5. #5
    egt's barely climb above 1400, and you have to be in it for a long time to get that far! As far as smoke, I don't fuel hard down low until the turbo lights, and I pull a bunch of timing in the spool up regions. If you get under the turbo and smash it, it will puff a little then clean right up. These tiny turbo's light so fast that it's hard to have any smoke at all. Also, on the top end, having more timing reduce's smoke... if you pulled timing back 5 or 10 degree's up top you'd have more smoke. Half the reason Smarty and other box tuners were so smokey is because they hit the 25* timing limit that's in the factory ecms.
    I was actually pretty surprised at how cool it runs, I think part of it is the better cam profile that's in the early common rail trucks. An 06 with the same tune will run warmer for sure.

  6. #6
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    Thanks Dom. Great read. Like what you did with pilot timing, its the one thing im still in the dark with.

    Any reason behind why you set it like you did?
    2005 Cummins 325/600 G56 3.73
    Reving to 4800
    Worked Head, Twin Disc, BBI

  7. #7
    I'll give it my best shot at explaining my thought behind it. Remember, Pilot is based off of main timing, not tdc. Low load and Low RPM I'm running higher timing on the pilot, but if you look at the main timing tables, that where I'm running lower timing. As load and RPM go up, main timing goes up significantly, so i start to drop pilot timing and eventually drop it out completely. I really need to rescale all of the axis's but it's such a pain in the ass to have to rescale every tune. Wish I could just make a template and use it for the appropriate tunes. There may be a way, but I haven't been using HP long enough to get it all figured out.
    Last edited by Dom_c13b; 09-27-2016 at 09:39 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom_c13b View Post
    I'll give it my best shot at explaining my thought behind it. Remember, Pilot is based off of main timing, not tdc. Low load and Low RPM I'm running higher timing on the pilot, but if you look at the main timing tables, that where I'm running lower timing. As load and RPM go up, main timing goes up significantly, so i start to drop pilot timing and eventually drop it out completely. I really need to rescale all of the axis's but it's such a pain in the ass to half to rescale every tune. Wish I could just make a template and use it for the appropriate tunes. There may be a way, but I haven't been using HP long enough to get it all figured out.
    I guess it makes sense. just need to digest it some more.

    Yes i knew its based off main timing + the minimum delay.

    Thanks!
    2005 Cummins 325/600 G56 3.73
    Reving to 4800
    Worked Head, Twin Disc, BBI

  9. #9
    I've seen other tuners that put a small pilot way out front all the way up through but I just don't really see the need. I start to notice more rattle if I give it too much more pilot. I'm sure up in the rpm you could give it more but I don't really see the need for it most of the time.

  10. #10
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    From my reading of engineering papers, it appears that a pilot further out from main lowers noise, but a small shot close to main is the best for cruise mpg, at the detriment of some audible combustion rattle. That duration and timing scares me a little. Cylinder pressure spike (due to negative work on the piston still rising up the bore) would be getting up there. I think I'd go bigger nozzles and pull timing and duration back some.

    Have you played with boost timing adder? It's supposed to adjust either pilot or main timing under afc conditions. I tried to have it pull timing under spool conditions, but it didn't work.

  11. #11
    If you look closely at the timing it's not getting high timing until higher rpm. I mean at 2000rpm I'm only at 10* of timing, that's nothing. Especially with not having a super advanced pilot. The higher the rpm the higher you can push the timing. I do agree that bigger nozzles and being able to pull timing back is the way to go but this isn't my truck so not an option. I do shut injection off on this truck at 30*atdc, really cuts down on heat and smoke. On trucks with bigger injectors I shut eoi off at about 22*atdc. Also, on trucks with bigger injectors I typically will only run out to 2800us of duration.

  12. #12
    The boost timing adder works, but only after all of the other adders are satisfied. Such as intake temp and coolant temp. I have thought about using those tables on the efilive trucks but haven't really needed to yet. It would certainly help with smoke control on big injector trucks.

  13. #13
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    I need more time to mess with it

  14. #14
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    Dom,

    How do I add additional cells for additional RPM's? Here is a pic.
    Scren Shot questioning how to add additional cells for RPM's.gif

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madflatter View Post
    Dom,

    How do I add additional cells for additional RPM's? Here is a pic.
    Scren Shot questioning how to add additional cells for RPM's.gif
    There is no way of adding additional x or y axis breakpoints, only the ability to rescale them. The resolution of the various maps is dictated by how much computational power (RAM and storage space) was available to the Operating System developer/engineer, and how much priority a given map had in terms of how much resolution was deemed necessary and/or acceptable given the limitations.

    2003 ECMs had much less computational power than the 04.5+ ECMs.

  16. #16
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    I'm just wondering is this from a 250hp truck or a 305? Thanks
    Chris T.

    2014 F350 6.7 Powerstroke.
    2008 Ford F350 Super Duty 6.4L TT Diesel. 72MM turbo, 10" lift 38" NITTO MT's 5" Straight Pipe Exhaust
    2007 Escalade 6.2L
    2010 Lexus RX350 3.5L
    2000 Camaro SS LS1 M6 - STS Turbo, FMIC, 60lb Deka's, Racetronix Fuel pump.
    1998 Dodge Cummins 12v 5spd
    1998 Topkick Cat 3126E 7.2L
    1983 Toyota Hilux Pickup SR5
    2006 DRZ400
    2008 Turbo Nytro
    2010 Skidoo XP 800
    1978 Corvette

  17. #17
    Honestly I don't remember! Shouldn't matter for the end result though. I don't think there were any difference's other than the tune for the lower hp trucks.

  18. #18
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    I loaded the tables onto my 845 computer with 250 SO motor.. and it was not happy with the tune. idled great. but any time I touched gas it would fuel really hard then blow white smoke and break up ready bad. wondering if injectors and cp3 are exact same or not between 250 and 305... I know the compression is not the same from my research. I took a stock 305 tune, tried tables on 250 and wow it really seemed to run nice and added some extra hp. But that isn't enough I would really like to get the 250 running around 400hp hopefully that's a safe number for motor and 47re if I drive it nice.
    Chris T.

    2014 F350 6.7 Powerstroke.
    2008 Ford F350 Super Duty 6.4L TT Diesel. 72MM turbo, 10" lift 38" NITTO MT's 5" Straight Pipe Exhaust
    2007 Escalade 6.2L
    2010 Lexus RX350 3.5L
    2000 Camaro SS LS1 M6 - STS Turbo, FMIC, 60lb Deka's, Racetronix Fuel pump.
    1998 Dodge Cummins 12v 5spd
    1998 Topkick Cat 3126E 7.2L
    1983 Toyota Hilux Pickup SR5
    2006 DRZ400
    2008 Turbo Nytro
    2010 Skidoo XP 800
    1978 Corvette

  19. #19
    hmm something sounds like it's not correct. Post the tune that you copied everything over too. I'll look to see if you missed anything. There are a lot of tables to go through

  20. #20
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    Hey Dom_c13b,

    This is the file I tried on my 03 and it wouldn't run right.

    Thanks
    Chris.
    03cummins-modifty-2.hpt
    Chris T.

    2014 F350 6.7 Powerstroke.
    2008 Ford F350 Super Duty 6.4L TT Diesel. 72MM turbo, 10" lift 38" NITTO MT's 5" Straight Pipe Exhaust
    2007 Escalade 6.2L
    2010 Lexus RX350 3.5L
    2000 Camaro SS LS1 M6 - STS Turbo, FMIC, 60lb Deka's, Racetronix Fuel pump.
    1998 Dodge Cummins 12v 5spd
    1998 Topkick Cat 3126E 7.2L
    1983 Toyota Hilux Pickup SR5
    2006 DRZ400
    2008 Turbo Nytro
    2010 Skidoo XP 800
    1978 Corvette