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Thread: who has a working 11-14 flex fuel tune using HPtuners

  1. #21
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    Looking at the commanded WOT lambda I see .83. In the tune the flex fuel WOT lambda is .85. The scanner is saying 70% ethanol but is not using the flex fuel table. It also does not add timing until the lambda becomes very rich. I believe the fuel logic is fixed to the 14.08 endpoint value or is not relearning correctly. It would be interesting to see the actual AFR it is at rather than the lambda. E70 would have 10.7 stoich. your low range AFR is 10.26. This means it most likely couldn't get locked into the low end point.

    There are a lot of reports of the ethanol % being inaccurate after a learn and a reflash which causes a KAM reset.

    This doesn't explain it happening after disabling the FF logic and just changing the stoich value. It would be interesting to see a log of this and one with the FF logic and an actual AFR value.

  2. #22
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridenrunwv View Post
    No. It didn't make a difference setting it to 1. I have the same issue even without flex fuel enabled. Can just set the stoich in the tune and it still goes into this mode.

    I appreciate everyone's attempts to work together to help find a solution.
    I'm pretty convinced the problem is a missing "Cold Start Spark Retard - Alcohol" table that tells the PCM spark advance limit at cold start. There's probably also an associated bleed off cold start spark table that's probably causing the car to stick in cold start spark.

    I have access to both of these in SCT and have them populated with gas values instead of the stock "0" ones and I don't have the issues you are describing.

    If you zero out your afr vs ethanol table it may run proper spark with stoich changed to e85 and flex disabled but I haven't done that to test as I don't have one stuck in cold start spark.

  3. #23
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    I haven't tried zeroing out the AFR vs Ethanol table and turning off flex fuel but I have disabled flex fuel and still experienced the problem. I actually just emailed support probably the minute you were posting this. What a coincidence.

  4. #24
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    So can you modify your HP Tuners files with SCT in some way to populate these or are you having to tune flex fuel using SCT?

  5. #25
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    I create an underlay file with SCT and use that to start my HPT editing.

    I've still been using sct for some alcohol tables and modifiers like those I mentioned as well as some fuel injector, torque converter K factor, and hesitation fuel transient tables that aren't defined yet in hpt.

  6. #26
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    I'm currently tuning a 12' 3.7 stang for flex fuel and am having the 0 timing problem as well whether I enable flex fuel or adjust the stoich AFR.

  7. #27
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    I'm glad you bumped this thread. I've been thinking about doing it. Hopefully Eric or one of the developers will get what we need added to the definitions so we can do this entirely with HP Tuners.

  8. #28
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    Having same issue on a 2012 5.0 model. Car worked great before on pump gas, but as soon as i changed it for e85 the car started to only use cold start emissions spark source which as we all know limits timing drastically to 10degree tops. Trying to get this fixed before car goes back to track.

  9. #29
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    Could one of you guys please post an 11-12 tune that's been modified with SCT to work correctly with high ethanol fuels so those of us without SCT could just start using that as a base for future 11-12 cars.

  10. #30
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    Think I may have figured it out. I made some changes and emailed them to my buddy to try on his using the NGauge to load it and he says it shows higher timing. Having him stop by so i can log it to verify, then I'll post what changes made it work. Stay tuned.....

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witt View Post
    I'm pretty convinced the problem is a missing "Cold Start Spark Retard - Alcohol" table that tells the PCM spark advance limit at cold start. There's probably also an associated bleed off cold start spark table that's probably causing the car to stick in cold start spark.

    I have access to both of these in SCT and have them populated with gas values instead of the stock "0" ones and I don't have the issues you are describing.

    If you zero out your afr vs ethanol table it may run proper spark with stoich changed to e85 and flex disabled but I haven't done that to test as I don't have one stuck in cold start spark.
    This is what worked for me. Unfortunately that means no flex fuel. Must be something to do with the table for whatever reason. Hopefully support can figure it out.

  12. #32
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    I've been upping my ethanol content to keep testing the stock fuel system and just now hit this issue.

    With flex fuel enabled and <50% inferred percentage the car runs great. I did a e49.4% run and it was smooth, so I went to ad some timing back in and apperantly the new inferred ethanol percentage was 55% and it suck itself in cold emissions readiness. Max spark advance during WOT was 23*, a flat 23* too.

    I'm going to make zero tune changes and add some 93 back in to drop the percentage down and see if that fixes it.

  13. #33
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    If it's like I have come across it will eventually go back to normal when you get the ethanol content down again. I really wish they would fix this.

  14. #34
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    Yeah I added some 93 and brought the content back down to 45% and it ran great again. I wonder if Eric is aware of this...someone had mentioned missing parameters...wonder if Eric knows about this

  15. #35
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    He posted a little over a month ago saying if we couldn't figure out the problem he would look into it for us but not sure if he has kept up with the thread. I think he was thinking it might have just been tuning errors but now should be convinced otherwise as many people have had the problem

  16. #36
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    I emailed support about this. All they could say was they planned on adding the features at a later date but couldn't give a specific time frame, "Should be in the next few months". I've put my Mustang away for the winter and am focusing on other projects and can only hope that these features will be implemented by the time spring rolls around.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witt View Post
    I'm pretty convinced the problem is a missing "Cold Start Spark Retard - Alcohol" table that tells the PCM spark advance limit at cold start. There's probably also an associated bleed off cold start spark table that's probably causing the car to stick in cold start spark.

    I have access to both of these in SCT and have them populated with gas values instead of the stock "0" ones and I don't have the issues you are describing.

    If you zero out your afr vs ethanol table it may run proper spark with stoich changed to e85 and flex disabled but I haven't done that to test as I don't have one stuck in cold start spark.
    I just emailed support about this, hopefully Eric can chime in and let us know if this is something they can add. If what you say is true, it sounds like that "Cold Spark retard - Alcohol" table is what was causing my timing to cap out at 23". The spark curve on the log was actually a flatline when you looked at it on the graph.

  18. #38
    Bump. No luck on gen 1 control pack ECU either
    AAHHHHH!!!!!!

  19. #39
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    He's since defined the appropriate tables to enable flex fuel on any Copperhead PCM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witt View Post
    He's since defined the appropriate tables to enable flex fuel on any Copperhead PCM.
    This may partially be true. On my 14 i get no PID content percentage after enabling FLex and populating tables. The car learns the Content but PID always shows 0.0% ive emailed support and according to them nothing is wrong. But ive tried different ways of trying to get it to work. But havnt gotten PID to work.