Fan on with key on engine off on CTSV

[MeanMike]

I've read there is a way to tun the fan on when the engine is off, but key is on, so I can get the car to cool down a bit between passes at the track. I'm new to HP tuners and have only spent 30 minutes surfing through it, but didn't find anywhere that jumps out at me to do this. The car is stock with no tuning done at this time. Is this a simple one click setting or a combination of things? If so, where? Thanks. Edit: This is an 09 CTSV

[Codes]

Have a look under System --> Fans --> Ignition Off. Increase the Run Time Max. Adjust zones and temps as desired. Also set Startup Delay to 0 under Relay Controls.

[MeanMike]

Thanks. I didn't actually pull the tune out of my car yet, I just opened the sample 09 CTSV file. I don't think it had that, but it was late and I don't remember well. Maybe reading the stock tune will show more stuff, I'll try that tonight.

[Codes]

Yeah post it up, we can assist more efficiently then.

[MeanMike]

Ok I read the actual ecu and now those options show up. Maybe there is a basic help file that can teach me this stuff, if so point me to it.
What is the difference in zone 1 and 2?

If I set "Enable ECT" A to 180, I should set "Disable ECT" lower (175), correct?

I'm only going to use the 50% speed portion for now to see if that gives enough.

I also changed Engine>Torque Management>Supercharger>ERT Min to 0 to turn on the IC pump.
And I used the gear/tire wizzard to change my tires size to 28" for my drag radials.

Is there anything else beneficial for an otherwise stock car that I can turn on/off? Just rear tires and a cold air on the car right now.

[Jggregory99]

If you installed a Cold Air Intake, then you are going to have to tune the ECM in the car... No question.... Once you change the airflow, you change the AFR... Your MAF/VE airflow dynamics have been altered by the CAI and your MAF most likely has been relocated from stock position. The Air Mass dynamics of the VE/VVE have also been altered. In order to benefit from those changes you absolutely have to tune for the changes... So ON/OFF settings are not going to help you with performance... If you have never tuned before and, if you really want to learn how, step by step I would suggest you contact Ed Mowton @ ERM Performance. He can instruct you on more than just the basics. You could IM him on this forum.. or E-mail...

http://www.ermperformancetuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/ERMPerformanceTuning
[email protected]

[MeanMike]

I'm sure some tweaking of the maf curve would help. But it's an airaid, so it "should" be good as is. I've got a big pile of parts to go on and I was planning to work with a tuner after a couple more items go on.

I changed the settings for the IC pump. ERT Min to 0. That made it run all the time regardless of what position the key was on. I had to load a tun with the factory setting to turn the pump off.

I changed the fan settings like I said above and it didn't turn on or stay on after driving the car to get it up to temp. I'm either missing something or the zone 1 and 2 settings have an effect. I want to understand them before changing things.
fans.JPG
ert min.JPG

[Jggregory99]

I'm sure some tweaking of the maf curve would help. But it's an airaid, so it "should" be good as is. I've got a big pile of parts to go on and I was planning to work with a tuner after a couple more items go on.

I changed the settings for the IC pump. ERT Min to 0. That made it run all the time regardless of what position the key was on. I had to load a tun with the factory setting to turn the pump off.

I changed the fan settings like I said above and it didn't turn on or stay on after driving the car to get it up to temp. I'm either missing something or the zone 1 and 2 settings have an effect. I want to understand them before changing things.
fans.JPG
ert min.JPG

Post the tune... Also, the type of CAI really makes no difference... AirRaid, K&N, Etc.. A larger diameter air intake pipe, High Flow AC systems, etc, change the airflow from stock, which affects Dynamic Airflow Remember...Teams of hundreds of engineers built the OS for the ECM/PCM with stringent testing of Airflow Models based on a stock intake system.. The smallest change can have major effects.. That change will cause a difference in how the ECM/PCM adjusts fueling not just to the MAF curve but the VE/VVE as well... Just FYI...

[MeanMike]

Here is the tune with the fan and IC stuff and without. I also attached a couple logs a cruise and a 3/4 throttle up through a couple gears. Those are with the tire height change only.

When cruising and the engine not completely hot, it has a light bucking on coast.

[JBZ]

Its probably easier just to do it with the scanner controls while sitting in the staging lanes...in my opinion. You can change that in your tune but then they will always run when the temp is above the setpoint. If you only do it for running at the track its really easy using your scanner and monitor the temp...then when your happy with it shut it off.

I wouldnt worry to much about just having a cold air on the car. Yes it will change your afr but by a very minimal amount and unless you have a wideband to monitor afr you will be playing a guessing game anyways. Fwiw i ran an airaid cai for over a year on stock tune before i modded and tuned it with no ill effects. But these guys are right it will change your afr ever so slightly when your in PE.

[Jggregory99]

That is why I said you should be aware of the fueling... A K&N cold air intake installed on my stock 14 Camaro using the stock Card Type MAF Sensor changed my AFR Error by as much as 12-15% rich on the MAF curve, and the Dynamic Airflow registered 20-25% rich in some cells of the VVE on the LTFT+STFT Err.. (And that was just the CAI, no other mods were made at that time.)... Remember...Hundreds of engineers built the OS for the ECM/PCM using precise airflow models. ANY CAI.. K&N, AirRaid, High Flow AC systems, Etc.. can and does change Dynamic Airflow in not just the MAF curve but the MAP dynamics of the VE/VVE, and alters how the PCM/ECM registers and reacts to those airflow dynamics... These Err changes could be minor.. or major..as it depends on the PCM/ECM and vehicle setup. The bucking could be an effect of overfueling while decelerating as the DCFO is fighting for control, depending on fuel trims and the fuel cell Zone.. Every change to airflow through the engine requires a tune... Cams, exhaust, Oversized TB etc.. I only state these facts as I do not know how much tuning experience you have, and want you to be aware of some basics. If you plan on working with a tuner and not doing the tune yourself, I would suggest, again, Ed Mowton, User "Mowton"[email protected] (Who I know for a fact does remote tuning, as well as teaches tuning strategies) .. Also... HP Tuner Forum users "5FDP" and "Schpenxel" are excellent sources of info as well. All three of these gentlemen have a VAST amount of knowledge and have been doing this for a VERY long time.. I have learned much from all three, and Ed is my "GoTo" source when I have an issue...

[MeanMike]

I understand that the intake changes the maf curve. I also understood that for the airaid, it is within the range of what the fuel trims can correct.

I have a moderate amount of tuning experience with XFI on my previous car, but being that this is a maf system I have some new stuff to get used to. But I do understand how the maf works. Where is struggle is the little extras that the ecu controls (ie: IC pump and fans).

My plan with my parts was to put parts that would not affect the tune greatly on the car first. Heat Exchanger and pump, cold air and tires. Beat on that at the track for the remainder of the season. The next step is an LS9 cam, 9.5" lower pulley, headers, e85 and blower porting. I was hoping to save the major dyno tuning until after that.

[Jggregory99]

Got it... Just let me say I'm no expert at this... But this is what I see...So, as far as your fans are concerned.... You can control them with VCM Scanner vehicle controls and special functions on the fly... or... In the VCM editor... System>Fans>Desired % vs ECT.. If you set that to 100 across the board... your fans will run non stop at 100% AT ALL TEMPS above 192.2*... Yours don't even appear to kick on until you reach 210*, however, I would use caution, as my understanding is you can burn out the fans if they are running 100% all the time..... Maybe set them to 40-50% up to 210...then 50-60% 210-224... Leave the rest alone. You could set your ignition off run time max to up to 3,277 seconds (IE 55 minutes) you are currently set to 5m50s... So, however long you want the fans to stay on after ignition is off...say 15 minutes... set the run time max to 900s.... that should give you plenty of cool down between runs without burning the fans out, and the fans should stay on until you reach your min ECT cutoff or 900s..which ever is first.. although, I believe, battery life will suffer running your fan for that length of time.... I know....It's never something for nothing...always a trade off..... Test out these settings and see how they work out for you... Best of luck though.. and like I said.. Contact Ed or one of the others.... They are the true experts at this...

[JBZ]

don't set your fans to 100%. use these spreadsheets to set desired fan on/off vs temp. also a good read is this sticky on fan logic. http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...ght=LS2%20fans

[mowton]

The first temp cell in the table has to have a value that will result in both fans off or they will turn on and run forever...

ed M