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Thread: Commanded timing

  1. #1
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    Commanded timing

    I've talked to a few people now that are all having the same issue and that is you can't hit the commanded timing. If I have 22* peak commanded I get around 18*. If I add another 4 I'm still at 20*. I've gone thru my tune several times to make sure it isn't a load limit or something dumb and I'm just not seeing it. I've commanded as high as 30* to get about 21*. I'm not knocking and I'm not showing torque limiting active in the logger. I've tried increasing the optimum spark tables even further with no change either. I'm going to test playing with the spark minimum table tomorrow to see if I can force the 22-23* I want.

    Anyone have any input or suggestions?

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    HPT Employee Engineer@HPT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackyardTurbo_FTW View Post
    I've talked to a few people now that are all having the same issue and that is you can't hit the commanded timing. If I have 22* peak commanded I get around 18*. If I add another 4 I'm still at 20*. I've gone thru my tune several times to make sure it isn't a load limit or something dumb and I'm just not seeing it. I've commanded as high as 30* to get about 21*. I'm not knocking and I'm not showing torque limiting active in the logger. I've tried increasing the optimum spark tables even further with no change either. I'm going to test playing with the spark minimum table tomorrow to see if I can force the 22-23* I want.

    Anyone have any input or suggestions?
    Have you looked at the Continuous Knock and Catalyst Heating spark offset tables?

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    The continuous knock table is -3.75* in the high load/WOT area stock. I have it set to -2 right now and that hasn't changed anything. That was one of the things I tested just to see but according to the table description thats only active when there is continuous knock, which Im showing 0* for anything WOT.

    I also have the catalyst heating spark offset 0'd out in the high load columns also as a test, still no dice there.

    The only thing I can think of is something with the Spark Minimum table. Im going to keep testing changes to that table and see if I can't finally get the timing Im looking for unless you have any other suggestions? I could PM you the tune if you want to look?

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    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    Making the spark minimum table match my timing table in the high load columns seems to have the opposite effect. This doesn't make sense ��

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    Subbed for updates.

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    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    Me too. Not sure why this has changed from the 3.4 or 3.5 version to the latest 3.6 but something is off now

  7. #7
    HPT Employee Mark@HPTuners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackyardTurbo_FTW View Post
    Me too. Not sure why this has changed from the 3.4 or 3.5 version to the latest 3.6 but something is off now
    Please send your .HPT file and a VCM Suite InfoLog to Support. Put Attn: Mark in the subject line. I'll prep something for you to try.

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    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    You sir, you are very good you! Ill send it over when I get home tonight. Thanks!

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    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    Sent it in

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    Update on this after having some time to play with it a bit. HP sent me a beta copy with a spark limiter table defined which has helped. Im still experimenting a bit figuring out how to get everything to work in unison but so far Im getting close to the timing I want.

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    Can you kindly post screenshots as you make progress with it?

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    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    This is the table they added to the beta. You can see how it will limit timing like I was seeing without having been able to access this table. So far this has been a great help!

    stock_c63.jpg

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    So finally I have my HP Tuners software and did my first solid data log last night....I'm so freaking excited and can't wait to start tuning this weekend!

    Backyard, one thing I will ask is are you still running around 22 degree's up top? I happen to know that with a very precise tune, it's possible to achieve 27-29 degree's from 5-7k rpm.....that's what I am going to aim for (knock-pending of course) and I think you should too, assuming this issue of commanded timing gets resolved.

  14. #14
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    When I ran the Eurocharged tunes I couldnt run the 93 maps either, which were like 26-28* peak. My car just happens to like 22-24* peak depending on the weather. Not sure why that is unfortunately. Ive tried running a bit richer and it didnt help. I do run 93 but its very possible we just have crappy 93 here. I dont have E85 easily available either, closest station is an hr each way.

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    Hey man, I'm having the same issue as you. I just emailed tech support, without a copy of my tune for tips.

    It's weird, because it's only at near enough max load that timing is being pegged back so badly. At medium/partial throttle, my car is an animal now. Full throttle...grrr.....

    Has the new Max Durable Spark table helped now in order to get your commanded timing working correctly? Is it a V3.6 update? I'm still on the V3.4 which came with the USB key, which might be part of the problem I suppose.

  16. #16
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    Ive been getting the timing I desire but I still had to command like 2* over what I wanted. But at least its working now. Im sure there is some other limiting table that we're not seeing yet, or Im a moron, both are possible.

  17. #17
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    Interesting.

    Would I be correct to assume that the Max Durable Spark table helped you to achieve your goal?

    Last night my commanded was 29....ended up with 20-23, lol. My car is officially faster at 2/3 throttle, than full throttle. I think I need to upgrade to V3.6 and take it from there.

  18. #18
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    Yes, that table definitely helped. I would command 30 and get 20 max before!

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    Thank you my friend. I'll buy a cheap Windows laptop then and do this.

    I'm currently using my office laptop (my personal one is a Macbook) but it only has allowed me to install the software from the USB key with the package, which was V3.4 - it won't allow me to update to the newer version. I'll report back once I've done this

  20. #20
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    So i've got V3.6 now, but can't see the max durable spark...however, i'm not sure if the tables on the right are what i need....were they they before? I can't remember now if it's the same (I'm referring to the optimum spark tables)


    Screen Shot 2018-01-04 at 17.08.05.png