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Thread: Base timing with Gen 1 sbc.

  1. #1

    Base timing with Gen 1 sbc.

    How did you guy do you base timing? Ive always in the past been able to use a scan program with a CMP Pid or GM.CMPRET . HP tuners is supposed to have one = to, called Cam angle I believe. Its not working for me In version 3.0/3.4 .Its always at 0 it should fluctuate slightly when you give it gas . Its near impossible to set to 0 so I know its not working .
    I need to set my timing to 0 , im unsure how to with out the proper PID. What have others done?
    Last edited by Mrich0908; 11-19-2016 at 05:33 PM.

  2. #2
    If i where to command 20* timing with hp tuners scanner and use a timing light. Think I could set it like that?

  3. #3
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    Are you trying to get the distributor offset correct for your vortec engine with vortec distributor? Technically they are gen 1 sbc. If so you need to be looking for (cam offset) in your table list. this is what I always use to get my vortec dizzy set closest to 0 remember the cam offset reading is only considered accurate at or above 1,000 rpm. Hopefully im not going in the wrong direction here. but it seems like this is what your referencing.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleblu View Post
    Are you trying to get the distributor offset correct for your vortec engine with vortec distributor? Technically they are gen 1 sbc. If so you need to be looking for (cam offset) in your table list. this is what I always use to get my vortec dizzy set closest to 0 remember the cam offset reading is only considered accurate at or above 1,000 rpm. Hopefully im not going in the wrong direction here. but it seems like this is what your referencing.
    Yes cam angle offsets not working in ver 3.0-3.4. Im know how to set the distributor ive set it many times, but for what ever reason hptuners pid isnt working. So now I have to improvise until tech support fixes the issues.

  5. #5
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    Just to be sure you are putting (cam offset) in your channels list right. That's the only one I've gotten to work for my distributor. I'm running an l31 5.7 vortec with a 0411 pcm. I have not tried it in 3.4 yet I'll check tomorrow.

  6. #6
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    So checked this morning to see if the cam offset was working in my channels list and everything appears to functioning correctly. Just above 1000 rpm the offset becomes reactive and reads -.1 low to .2 high unless your using a different pcm or a different o.s. it should work for you this was on yesterday's 3.4 download.

  7. #7
    I know how to use it properly. Its not working for me . I have a different ecm than you mines a 6243 1mb p59 controller.

  8. #8
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    Bummer.

  9. #9
    Yes ,
    So in theory if I lock timing out to 20* I should be able to adjust timing with a timing light by turning the distributor .Making up the difference so the two are where they should be. No?

  10. #10
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    In theory It sounds like it would work. BUT that would only set initial timing for an hei. the distributor in the vortec only acts as a cam position sensor. Rotating the distributor itself only changes the correlation between the crank and cam, as far as I'm aware turning the distributor will not have any effect on the actual timing. Are your getting a crank/cam correlation fault? If you are and a crank relearn isn't correcting it the maybe you do need to turn the distributor aka (cam position sensor) one way or the other. Hopefully you get this issue solved soon I've been trying to follow you on gmt400 forums. I like your project.

  11. #11
    Thanks for the compliment,
    Im not getting a fault but haven't set cam retard so I know its not 100%.It takes allot to throw a fault some motors will run 18* off Ive read. Thats allot. I want it to be with in the 2* +- GM called for .
    I understand how the two relate to each other. It does more than time the vehicle its also how your injectors know when to fire .
    If you go to the scanner your able to set the timing to any degree you want and hold it there . I picked 20* . So it will stay at 20* and not move. If cam retards off so will be timing.
    If I can adjust timing back to 20* with a light in my mind they should all line up. Because if cam retards off so will be the injector timing and spark timing. It shouldn't read 20* with a light once I lock it there at first.
    Are I making sense?
    How true any of this is ,im not sure .

  12. #12
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    Honestly it sounds like it's worth a shot. Maybe command the idle to 1050 then command the 20* lockout. And start twisting, you should instantaneously See results in theory. Of course theory must be tested to be proven. Though I'm afraid you will see 20* +- 1* no matter how far you twist it both ways until you're so far you start to lose injector timing so badly she starts to cough. I must say I'm honestly interested but doubtful. I'll explain why, if the logic you reference is correct then I should have seen results when I was twisting my distributor previously watching scanner data. the computers algorithm to reference timing would become redundant if we could adjust timing manually.

  13. #13
    I finally put a timing light to it. When I locked timing out at 30 degrees it was + 2 degrees. Explains why its pops out the intake every now and then. Why Im having trouble tuning the motor.
    HP tuners support says the PID works fine for them and its on my side. I dont see what I could have done to compromise the PID. How could it be my fault. My hardware's fine every where else. This is frustrating . I cant time my motor with out this PID. I have to spend more credits to buy another PCM.....
    Im kind of lost ...

  14. #14
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    Are you absolutely sure this engine is timed correctly internally. Dot to dot or did you degree the cam when you put it in. possibly you ended up a tooth off which could put timing off more than 10* depending on chain slack.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleblu View Post
    Are you absolutely sure this engine is timed correctly internally. Dot to dot or did you degree the cam when you put it in. possibly you ended up a tooth off which could put timing off more than 10* depending on chain slack.
    Cam timing and ignition timing have nothing to do with each other other then they share the word timing.
    I purchased a new to me ecm . P01 controller . I cant even see the cam offset Pid with the new Ecm . I really upset at this point . My hardware works.

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    Have you checked wiring from the distributor connector end to the pcm pin location?

  17. #17
    Yes my truck runs and idles. The truck woulnt run without cam sensor. Every wire has been verified 2x with a multi-meter.

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    i started mine the other day after my intake swap and forgot to plug in my distributor connector aka cam sensor. it ran and idled. when i noticed a constant -10.0 offset i found out i accidentally left the connector unplugged. maybe the p59 pcm has to have it but the 0411 does not. im guessing since you didn't answer my question you have no doubts that the cam was installed correctly. Have you considered swapping to ls coils per plug to eliminate all this nonsense im not sure how cam position is referenced after the swap. But i know there isnt a distributor after the swap. which makes me think how do the passenger bank lifters get oil without a distributor.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleblu View Post
    i started mine the other day after my intake swap and forgot to plug in my distributor connector aka cam sensor. it ran and idled. when i noticed a constant -10.0 offset i found out i accidentally left the connector unplugged. maybe the p59 pcm has to have it but the 0411 does not. im guessing since you didn't answer my question you have no doubts that the cam was installed correctly. Have you considered swapping to ls coils per plug to eliminate all this nonsense im not sure how cam position is referenced after the swap. But i know there isnt a distributor after the swap. which makes me think how do the passenger bank lifters get oil without a distributor.

    You still use the dist to drive the oil pump and for the cam sensor. Just no cap with wires hanging off it. EFI Connection makes a block off cap.
    2001 Jimmy ,L31 with marine intake,CPC conversion,Nv3500 5 speed,SAS,Dana 44's front and rear,4.30 gears..

  20. #20
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    Thanks for clearing that up forgive my ignorance. That's what happens when i don't research something i talk about.