Base timing with Gen 1 sbc.

[Mrich0908]

i started mine the other day after my intake swap and forgot to plug in my distributor connector aka cam sensor. it ran and idled. when i noticed a constant -10.0 offset i found out i accidentally left the connector unplugged. maybe the p59 pcm has to have it but the 0411 does not. im guessing since you didn't answer my question you have no doubts that the cam was installed correctly. Have you considered swapping to ls coils per plug to eliminate all this nonsense im not sure how cam position is referenced after the swap. But i know there isnt a distributor after the swap. which makes me think how do the passenger bank lifters get oil without a distributor.

I already am coil per cylinder .Have been since day one. Thats and the MPFI is what the whole top end was about for me. You still need to set cam offset for your injectors to fire at the correct time and spark inside the distributor the cam sensor corresponds with your crank sensor .
Ive read other Gen 1 guys who have used other ecms besides 0411. Also remember these ecm power V6 chevys also that have the style cam sensor I do.
Ive check my wiring twice. There is no question in my mind that my wiring is correct. The 0411 is a P01 ecm. All the same pids you have I should. Im not even able to select cam offset with my new ecm.
If you go to the VCM scanner subforum there are 5 different threads about how the scanners values are wrong, not showing up ect.. Im not the only one. I refuse to believe two separate ecms that are both different fail to work. Besides HP Support says it should work so it should no?
Yes the distributor stays for oiling and cam sensor for coil per cylinder with a cap rather that rotor and distributor cap.
Edit........................
Oleblu ,
would you save me your working scanner config file in 3.4 with a quick data log session that has Camoffset working. Im hoping your config file with do something im either not seeing or fix something I moved (even though I didnt move anything) I dunno.

[Oleblu]

cam offset log for mirch0908.hpl


There ya go buddy kind of a crappy log just drove down the street with my son to take the trash so your in luck at one point later in the log there is a section of me just free revving the truck for a good few seconds with cam offset active and working on my scanner. On a side note i also have had some issues with the scanner only. I.e. today I had to repoll for parameters, close and reopen the program multiple times to get my scanner to read cyl. airmass. knock retard and a few others that just plain wouldn't work. I also had a few other windows up while trying to scan after i closed all programs and reopened the scanner everything was working in order in my channels list. i will admit i probably have to many channels in my list if not have it completely full of channels this probably also plays a roll in all this nonsense going on with the scanner. Edit sorry i forgot to add this one a bit ago.

VE channels list.Channels.xml

[Mrich0908]

My scanners wont open your layout file. WTF!!!!

[bronc3buster842001]

Opened fine for me.

I havent used the new scanner on my motor yet. But I usally double check my cam timing with my OTC scanner also

[Mrich0908]

I was able to open it earlier this morning. Im going to see if I can use your .xml and see if that works.

[Mrich0908]

I was opening the file wrong in scanner . Figured out the proper way and hptuners still wont let me see the PID. I even tried 2.24 today. Nope. Odd thing is now hpuners is saying the pid is unsupported with my 6.0l ecm p059. Great...

[Chris@HPTuners]

Unfortunately, this value is always 0 in COP applications and it is only used for spark in non-COP applications.

[bronc3buster842001]

I never even thought about that. Never checked my CPC setup. Was always running a dist. I think with the CPC setup you just have to make sure to do a crank relearn.

[Mrich0908]

Unfortunately, this value is always 0 in COP applications and it is only used for spark in non-COP applications.

So how does that explain one ecm offers a value of 0 and one doesnt allow the PID.
I find this hard to believe im the first to have this problem but 1000s of others have done this swap. . Im going to ask others on the other forums who have done the swap.
How does the ecu know its COP or distributor other than you adding the 10 wires? We do this all the time with gen 1s . So Chris your saying if undo the 10 wires 2 power 8 coil wires add a distributor cap all of a sudden the PID will work .... Common.
What about tech support saying everything was fine and I had a problem on my end. I went and bought a ecm and licensed another ecm. Clearly thats not the case.

I never even thought about that. Never checked my CPC setup. Was always running a dist. I think with the CPC setup you just have to make sure to do a crank relearn.

Crank relearn doesnt work either for me tried many different times.

[bronc3buster842001]

If its nice this weekend I may toss the wire harness on my motor and hook it all up to see if it works. Then we would know if its on your end or in the software

[Mrich0908]

If its nice this weekend I may toss the wire harness on my motor and hook it all up to see if it works. Then we would know if its on your end or in the software

Do you get what im saying? You really think once you add those wires the ecm knows not to send or use a PID. Even though it still uses it and needs it to fire the injectors. Ive been on the forums for years researching this conversion never has this been said not only that but I know people have used HP tuners to sync their distributor to cam.
Its a cop out you ask me.
You know what I have a rotor and cap I will go back to distributor . Then what will be the excuse.

[bronc3buster842001]

I woulnt see it making any difference.

[Oleblu]

be sure you are trying the crank relearn above 170 f* anything under that and the fuel cutoff won't engage. I learned this the hard way with the 160 thermostat that's in my truck right now. Had to wait till 170+ f* otherwise she will Rev straight to the limiter.

[bronc3buster842001]

I wasnt impressed with doing a cranl relearn in HP Tuners. So I always knocked the dust off the ol trusty OTC scanner.

[Mrich0908]

be sure you are trying the crank relearn above 170 f* anything under that and the fuel cutoff won't engage. I learned this the hard way with the 160 thermostat that's in my truck right now. Had to wait till 170+ f* otherwise she will Rev straight to the limiter.

Good to know yes I dont think I ever tryed @ above 170.
So sick of this software . I will be sure to tell every one I talk to with Gen 1s that want to go coil over plug not to bother with HPtuners . They cant get their CMP pid to work . Support says something totally different than the owner and they all pass the blame around .
Im actually going to start a thread in a few different forums. So others dont fall into the same problem as me.
Chris BTW the 0411 Ecm is both coil over plug and has a distributor. The ecm works with Gen1s and gen3s . That kind of blows your theory out the water that you cant have one with out the other.

[Oleblu]

The software serves me well with little issues. I have tuned gen 4, gen 3 stuff with great success. They abilities of the software far surpass my knowledge of how to use it. I learn a million things everytime I open my editor. Constantly feeling overwhelmed with knowledge I gain from poking at tables here and there. And I gotta be honest most the time when I have a problem it's my own fault.

[Chris@HPTuners]

So how does that explain one ecm offers a value of 0 and one doesnt allow the PID.
I find this hard to believe im the first to have this problem but 1000s of others have done this swap. . Im going to ask others on the other forums who have done the swap.
How does the ecu know its COP or distributor other than you adding the 10 wires? We do this all the time with gen 1s . So Chris your saying if undo the 10 wires 2 power 8 coil wires add a distributor cap all of a sudden the PID will work .... Common.
What about tech support saying everything was fine and I had a problem on my end. I went and bought a ecm and licensed another ecm. Clearly thats not the case.

There is a master options list where you need to select Low Res Only fitted, then there are probably a couple of things that need calibrating that aren't in the editor. The problem with GM crank and cam calibration is that none of it is ever tested by GM except for the platform that is was developed for ie. 24x crank sensor. In theory we could add it all in but it probably still wont work or there will be some other problem as most of the action happens at the hardware driver level. If others have it working with the same setup you have then i would ask their advice. We don't have any plans to revisit LS1 parameters anytime soon.

[Mrich0908]

There is a master options list where you need to select Low Res Only fitted, then there are probably a couple of things that need calibrating that aren't in the editor. The problem with GM crank and cam calibration is that none of it is ever tested by GM except for the platform that is was developed for ie. 24x crank sensor. In theory we could add it all in but it probably still wont work or there will be some other problem as most of the action happens at the hardware driver level. If others have it working with the same setup you have then i would ask their advice. We don't have any plans to revisit LS1 parameters anytime soon.

Chris ,
These sensors came stock on my motor from GM. They where developed for my motor. I didnt add anything. Thats what the pid is for. The gen 3 ecm is was still used on the Gen1 .
Im not asking you to add anything but make work whats supposed to be.

[bronc3buster842001]

Does the PID not even show up in the scanner. or does it just not read.

[Mrich0908]

One ecm it wont show up the other it wont read.