Torque Model editing functionality now in beta!

[mbray01]

Been playing with this table, no question it does help. But, separate from just smoothing (some are not bad, some are really rough), should we generally be telling the PCM more or less torque? As this seems to be a function of there calculation, does telling it more torque for a given spark/airmass increase possible airflow demand to meet that torque?

your not going to create more airflow demand by manipulating these tables, what you will accomplish however is let the pcm know what the actual output is, therefore allowing a more precise control over things like, torque management, transmission shifting, idle, and timing, along with more precise throttle body control

[undergroundak]

Thanks Keith!

I'm working with a 2014 6.0 truck with a ZL1 blower swap and this has allowed me to really dial in the trans parts throttle shifts while keeping the truck out of boost at low RPM areas. I was toggling back and forth between HP and "E" software to get this one dialed but am now able to use just HP.

Thanks!
Nick

[32vape]

What are these tables representing? Engine torque? Are the units ft/lbs or Nm? Using this requires manual entry into each cell or is there a histogram that could be set up to populate a % error? Sorry for the dumb questions, Just trying to get a handle on this.

[GHuggins]

^^^^^^^

Wat u need to do really is log the % error between ur maf and log also ecu desired maf also the same thing for measured map vs ecu desired map and apply the changes i will be sending hptuners support the tables to be added to allow the ecu to use measured map and measured maf instead of back calculating and chasing it self

[Higgs Boson]

Anyone else running into scanner not letting you change units for Throttle Desired Airflow or Airmass? They are just whole numbers and I am not sure what they represent....111, 128, 15, etc.

Also, I am running E70 right now and making changes to E85 MAP with no resulting improvements in error. The tune works fine in all aspects of Flex Fuel but I am wondering if it doesn't look at the E85 Coefficients? Or if Airmass makes the changes and the MAP tables don't do anything?

t1.hpl

[GHuggins]

Looks to me like it's just displaying in the wrong units - you might need to make a math parameter for it, but the decimal needs to shift to the left 2 places (?) to make it lb/min then it should follow the maf somewhat closely... You can also add decimal places to get a better log of data...

I still haven't been able to mess with these tables - get to after the holidays I hope, but on a gen 4 "our shop experimental car" - hoping for better throttle control with it, but who knows?

[Higgs Boson]

Looks to me like it's just displaying in the wrong units - you might need to make a math parameter for it, but the decimal needs to shift to the left 2 places (?) to make it lb/min then it should follow the maf somewhat closely... You can also add decimal places to get a better log of data...

I still haven't been able to mess with these tables - get to after the holidays I hope, but on a gen 4 "our shop experimental car" - hoping for better throttle control with it, but who knows?

I will have a look at that. Hopefully they will just enable the Units feature.

This was my first time finally being able to get the car out due to weather. Should last a few days but I would really like to be looking at this with 93 rather than E85 or just find out if the E85 tables even do anything. If they don't, running E85 may turn out to be less than ideal with an auto.

[WS6HUMMER]

your not going to create more airflow demand by manipulating these tables, what you will accomplish however is let the pcm know what the actual output is, therefore allowing a more precise control over things like, torque management, transmission shifting, idle, and timing, along with more precise throttle body control

Thanks for the explanation, I've read this whole thread & had a general understanding that it allowed for better spark & throttle control but not everything you mentioned above.

[sohc_mshue]

I am a bit confused. Does this use the airmass torque coefficients for when using the maf during steady state calcs and use the map based torque coefficients for during transients?

[Higgs Boson]

I think it uses both at the same time. Pretty sure the ECM compares MAP to Airmass in one of its calculations. ;-)

[GHuggins]

It's throttle desired airflow vs maf airflow (I log both in g/sec)
And
Throttle Desired map vs actual map

I log desired airmass and compare it to actual as well...

Jarrah thinks for getting that added ����

These parameters aren't available on a gen 4 platform at the moment and as I currently understand it aren't working in the gen 5 platforms - is there anything else that can be logged to correctly dial these tables in?

Even on gen4's the torque model helps to control throttle surging and other problems - was hoping to start playing with this next week on a gen4 since we needed some studies on it as well...

[Higgs Boson]

Any updates or improvements to this Torque Editor? I noticed I can change the Throttle Desired units in the Beta Scanner now so that's good. How about saving our axis preferences in the Torque Editor?

[WS6HUMMER]

I've been asking for this beta, still waiting.

[GHuggins]

Unfortunately I doubt anyone is going to see anything else on this until they release the new editor that they're coming out with.

[schpenxel]

New Editor you say?

[Higgs Boson]

I didn't know about that either..... any links?

Also, the Beta Scanner has changeable units for Desired pid but, for example, the Throttle Desired Airflow will read like 17 lb/min at idle so I don't think that's right but I could be wrong.........

[GHuggins]

Well not so much an entirely new editor but an editor with some new features for gm and ford. I know that they've been working pretty hard on getting the new features incorporated. Just hoping it's finalized and possibly released soon. They've been working on it for roughly a month - possibly 2 now?

[EFI Tuning]

Anyone else running into scanner not letting you change units for Throttle Desired Airflow or Airmass? They are just whole numbers and I am not sure what they represent....111, 128, 15, etc.

Also, I am running E70 right now and making changes to E85 MAP with no resulting improvements in error. The tune works fine in all aspects of Flex Fuel but I am wondering if it doesn't look at the E85 Coefficients? Or if Airmass makes the changes and the MAP tables don't do anything?

t1.hpl

Higgs I started playing with the VTTs the last few days. On my 16 Camaro SS it looks like when Flex Fuel is enabled it does utilize the E85 MAP and E85 Airmass tables. I set both to very high values in the WOT range and it was TPS limiting across the entire RPM band at WOT. It still isn't clear how the ECM utilizes both.

Tim

[thewhip]

Higgs I started playing with the VTTs the last few days. On my 16 Camaro SS it looks like when Flex Fuel is enabled it does utilize the E85 MAP and E85 Airmass tables. I set both to very high values in the WOT range and it was TPS limiting across the entire RPM band at WOT. It still isn't clear how the ECM utilizes both.

Tim

Just so I understand, you increased the torque value and it limited throttle?

Thanks

[Higgs Boson]

it seems like it would make sense if we converted airmass (whether g/s or lb/min) and converted it into a hp figure (or used delivered torque)? i have had no good results from error values in either MAP, airmass, or airflow. I don't think the scanner Throttle Desired figures are correct.

then if we had a value of 300 ft lbs at 2000 RPM, 90 kpa, and .8 g/s at 30 degrees of timing then 300 should go in the corresponding cell in both airmass and map tables.

the problem is separating cam timing torque values and separating spark lead values to correctly populate all the cells in all the tables.

anyone have a good solution for this?