Torque Model editing functionality now in beta!

[Keith@HPTuners]

A tip. Try to reduce the yAxis (MAP or Airmass) to just outside the extremes of your vehicle.

For example, in an NA setup, you might see 0-100 MAP. Right now, the default is 0-200. Change the yAxis to 0-105 and tune your tables that way. Do not worry about the MAP #'s you'll never reach (as long as you stay NA...).

In an NA setup, if you use a yAxis of 0-200, the coefficient generator will try to line up the 100-200 MAP range values as well, which will reduce the accuracy of the 0-100 range, which is the range you care about.

Remember, when you go from Calculated Torque -> Coefficients, the code is trying to come up with curves to calculate new coefficients that represent the torque #'s as accurately as possible. This is not a 1:1 solution. The point is, how you use the tool will greatly determine how accurate the calculated coefficients will be for your given application.

[Ben Charles]

A tip. Try to reduce the yAxis (MAP or Airmass) to just outside the extremes of your vehicle.

For example, in an NA setup, you might see 0-100 MAP. Right now, the default is 0-200. Change the yAxis to 0-105 and tune your tables that way. Do not worry about the MAP #'s you'll never reach (as long as you stay NA...).

In an NA setup, if you use a yAxis of 0-200, the coefficient generator will try to line up the 100-200 MAP range values as well, which will reduce the accuracy of the 0-100 range, which is the range you care about.

Remember, when you go from Calculated Torque -> Coefficients, the code is trying to come up with curves to calculate new coefficients that represent the torque #'s as accurately as possible. This is not a 1:1 solution. The point is, how you use the tool will greatly determine how accurate the calculated coefficients will be for your given application.

THIS!!!
Set up my blower setup to 10-210kpa with 25 increments I believe and the spark from -5 to 45 in 10 incrememtns

[GHuggins]

Just opened this - where is the final torque line located and if you try to change decimals at the moment it gives you the unhandled exception speech and kicks you out I got lots of exploring that I need to do now...

[GHuggins]

Alright, going to need a better crash course... When I open it I get what appears to be spark on the left axis and then it goes on to appear to be another dd table only with multiples opened up - is there going to be or perhaps supposed to be a line shown to simplify things? Jarrahs latest shows the lines - was hoping to be able to just change that and it calculate the coefficients from there?

Also a lot of my functions just kick the tables off of the page until you hit calculate - I assume to some degree that it's supposed to do this?

[GHuggins]

Ok, I think I understand it some now, but can we get it to display the units of the axis - obviously one's rpm / assume map is kpa? / airflow g/s? AND possibly a real time line display to show the changes

[Ben Charles]

Ok, I think I understand it some now, but can we get it to display the units of the axis - obviously one's rpm / assume map is kpa? / airflow g/s? AND possibly a real time line display to show the changes

RPM vs kpa (map) for map and E85 map

RPM vs airmass (mg) for airmass and e85 airmass

Be nice to have the table set up to convert to axle tq for the auto cars

[jarrah]

Havent yet played with hp tables....however keep in mind how the ecu operates the ecu see the commanded torque and puts in the torque module to solve for desired APC and desired MAP then compares it with maximum torque or peak torque table and does a check up against max timing and minimum timing tables if the commanded torque is withen the limits it will allow ur desired spark otherwise wat many thought it was knock in the past it starts pulling timing under wot it wont show it as torque advance or retard....the ecu then uses the desired apc to and desired map to calculate throttle opening using the compressible flow equation and then the throttle control module checks this against another table which we dnt have max apc vs throttle opening.....there is also another table where u can max and set max error allowed therefore ecu reverts to measured maf and measured map for calculation and not the other way around and this is wat gm does to start off with to map the engine with no limiters at all and then calculate the max torque with a spark hook test at least 6 points at each load point then feeds this into simulink to back calculate the coffecients for the torque module......
Also there is a table that maps throttle position with the throttle area and other air specific heat cp in order to come up with proper throttle opening......many calculations r going the back end with many limiters i did lots of logging i can make the predicted torque and immediate follow really close as per my last file .....

Also many stated these ecus needs ve to be dailed in ....in reality gm uses the ve just for start up since the intake manifold is empty and only at transient fueling thats why u see the ve tables the way they r for steady state conditions it reverts back to maf only

[GHuggins]

Havent yet played with hp tables....however keep in mind how the ecu operates the ecu see the commanded torque and puts in the torque module to solve for desired APC and desired MAP then compares it with maximum torque or peak torque table and does a check up against max timing and minimum timing tables if the commanded torque is withen the limits it will allow ur desired spark otherwise wat many thought it was knock in the past it starts pulling timing under wot it wont show it as torque advance or retard....the ecu then uses the desired apc to and desired map to calculate throttle opening using the compressible flow equation and then the throttle control module checks this against another table which we dnt have max apc vs throttle opening.....there is also another table where u can max and set max error allowed therefore ecu reverts to measured maf and measured map for calculation and not the other way around and this is wat gm does to start off with to map the engine with no limiters at all and then calculate the max torque with a spark hook test at least 6 points at each load point then feeds this into simulink to back calculate the coffecients for the torque module......
Also there is a table that maps throttle position with the throttle area and other air specific heat cp in order to come up with proper throttle opening......many calculations r going the back end with many limiters i did lots of logging i can make the predicted torque and immediate follow really close as per my last file .....

Also many stated these ecus needs ve to be dailed in ....in reality gm uses the ve just for start up since the intake manifold is empty and only at transient fueling thats why u see the ve tables the way they r for steady state conditions it reverts back to maf only

I've had my suspicions since the VE table isn't directly fixing any throttle input issues... VE still needs to be dialed in for transient fueling never the less, but I really like the in depth explanation here... I also like your last editor that you posted - guess I just need lessons on how to use all of this now? This also makes sense why the GM's are so much more harder to tune than the Fords - makes sense that we are missing the torque error and other tables - hopefully HPT can get these added...

[GHuggins]

RPM vs kpa (map) for map and E85 map

RPM vs airmass (mg) for airmass and e85 airmass

Be nice to have the table set up to convert to axle tq for the auto cars

I would really like to be able to change the units

[jarrah]

I can provide detailed explenation how the ecu works and wat exact tables we need to have ur throttle issue the one ur facing is purely due to ecu calculating desired maf and measured maf dont match as well as map desired u can see in my latest file where u can see wat the ecu calcualtes as desired vs wat u see as measured and the ecu trying to control the desired throttle area to control ur predicted torque and manage timing to control immediate torque in a closed loop manner if they r far off u will have the ecu and pid controller overshooting causing the throttle to oscillate around desired and never reaches steady state

[GHuggins]

So is the answer then in the torque model or these missing tables?

[jarrah]

So is the answer then in the torque model or these missing tables?

Both can do....if we use the missing tables u can firce the ecu to revert to measured apc and maf then use throttle position vs area and throttle position vs pedal to get the feeling u desire

[GHuggins]

Would these missing tables also designate 100% MAF or VE for those I know that are having issues going pure VE?

Sounds like we really need these too

[Engineer@HPT]

Both can do....if we use the missing tables u can firce the ecu to revert to measured apc and maf then use throttle position vs area and throttle position vs pedal to get the feeling u desire

If we are missing important tables, please e-mail support a detailed description and names and we'll do our best to add them.

[Keith@HPTuners]

New beta up with improved UI, bug fixes, etc..

The only thing remaining is:
Copy/Paste
Remembering user settings

Virtual Torque.png

[GHuggins]

Keith, would it be possible to get the axis editable? Possibly be able to use a different rpm scale or different units such as grams per second or lbhr for the air tables or is it just like this for a specific reason?

I've been playing with this some - looks like it's going to be very involved to dial in correctly... Any advice at all to use specific loads or anything like this to make skipping around a little and interpolating to make things go quicker? Cells or tables you would recommend focusing on more than others? It looks like it could take a week just like some of the Ford Tables to completely dial in...

Much appreciate the 3d modeling...

[Keith@HPTuners]

You can edit the RPM axis by opening up a coefficient table and clicking the column axis label. The coefficient tables X axis is what controls what RPM values Virtual Torque uses.

Changing the Y axis units might come later.. it's more involved.

[Higgs Boson]

I can see making a histogram/chart for RPM vs Airmass and one for RPM vs MAP and just using a filter to narrow each one down by spark (can save the log and change the filter to switch between them).

Question is what can we log into them? An error between Desired and Delivered Torque? Just Delivered Torque? etc.

Given the variability between dynos and most of them being chassis dynos, I would like to develop a way to tune the Virtual Torque Editor right from the Scanner.

[GHuggins]

I was considering delivered engine torque - only problem is this seems to change after you make the first change - at least with certain tables... I've been using this to help dial in the dd tables - has worked quite nicely with drivability, but like I said it seems to always change after making the first edit of the numbers... Wondering if the torque model would do the same thing? I also see having to lock in timing and cam positions or design in some very nice filters as you mentioned so it only reports at these times, but then how long would you have to log to get good usable data???

[Higgs Boson]

The nice thing about the scanner is, you can just log into the two charts for as long as you want and when you get done with logging, you can save the log, then you can alter the filter however you want and the data in the chart will change accordingly. This way you can fill up the Airmass and MAP charts with data then filter it by spark (-10, 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, etc).

I would probably use small ranges like Spark is between 18-22 or 28-32, etc. rather than exactly 20 or 30 so you can get more data.