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Thread: TipIn Detonation Control

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Tip-In Torque Limiter / Trans Trunc?

    Has anyone been successful in disabling this? I tried changing TCS, Tipin Limit, TipOut Limit on the Spark torque ratio limit table without success.

    I also zeroed out the tipin modifier but it doesn't do anything possibly because it only affects BKT.

    The tipin enabler is based on airmass per event so I can't figure out what to set for max and min.

    What's happening is the spark advance goes to -10 when you suddenly tip in the throttle, causing a hesitation. The EcoBoost seems to handle this differently from older Modulars.

    Any ideas?

    I also looked at my logs and can see TipIn Limit and TipOut Limit under Torque Sources, but only TipIn Limit causes the "AntiClunk TipIn Tq Limit" Driver Demand Limit to kick in. I'm guessing this is causing the hesitation when I gun the throttle in certain events?

    For instance, if I'm on the throttle merging onto the freeway and someone pulls in front and slows down, I have to drop throttle. But when I open the throttle immediately afterwards, the engine does absolutely nothing for a solid second or so.

    Do I need to disable TipIn and TipOut limit? If so, which table(s) do I need to touch? Spark Torque Ratio Limit? or Spark Only Torque Reduction?
    Last edited by metroplex; 01-15-2017 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #2
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    in the F150 tune there is a pedal enable and delta load enable table as well as the events and delay tables. Do you have these? If its just airmass enable/ disable I would think raising these just like the load enable tables would make it so the conditions couldn't be meet to put it in tip in mode.

    Also under electronic throttle you can disable the tipin management. This seems more likely than the spark tip in to be the cause of throttle hesitation. I think what it does is slow down how fast the throttle opens based on you pedal position.
    Last edited by murfie; 01-15-2017 at 12:17 AM.
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  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Here's what I have on the SHO:

    Engine -> Airflow -> Electronic Throttle -> Pedal Tip In Mgmt (Enable/Disable)
    Engine -> Airflow -> General -> Desired Air Mass, Managed Tip In Switch 1, Tip-In Airmass 100%, Throttle Rate Limit 10,000
    Engine -> Spark -> Advance, Spark Tip-In: Airmass Enable (0.0000787 lb), Airmass Disable (0.0000157 lb), Tip-In Modifier table (spark from 550 RPM to 1800 RPM)


    For the Tip-In Limit (Anti-Clunk Torque Reduction), I found them in the Fuel Cut Torque Ratio, Spark Torque Ratio Limit, and Spark Only Torque Ratio tables under:
    Engine -> Torque Management -> General

    Fuel Cut TR: TipIn and TipOut was set to 1
    Spark Torque Ratio Limit: TipIn set to 0.50, TipOut set to 0.70
    Spark Only Torque Ratio: TIpIn set to 0, TipOut set to 0.70

    I played around with some of these settings, but I'd like to hear what will disable that Anti-Clunk torque reduction because I strongly suspect that is the cause of the hesitation when I'm hard on the throttle, lift the throttle, then open the throttle rapidly. This has happened right out of the factory, so I normally use Sport mode to reduce it, but it happens even in Sport mode on the freeway to the point it can be dangerous. The car won't move/react for about 1 second when I'm physically WOT.

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Trans Trunc Torque Reduction

    After more datalogging, I was able to isolate exactly what was happening. I don't believe it is TipIn Detonation, but rather some torque rate limiter when I stab the throttle.

    Check out the attached screenshot, focus on the 4th row of histograms. The purple is my actual throttle pedal position. The cyan and white represent actual throttle body blade angle/position and what the ECU commands. Notice how my pedal is stabbed open but the throttle blade isn't open? This was on the freeway when I simulated the condition where I'm on the throttle, suddenly lift off, then punch open the throttle again. The engine doesn't do anything for that split second because the throttle angle is closed due to hitting some kind of throttle/torque limiter.

    This happens when the car is out of the factory with the original tune. One of the ways around this is to roll open the throttle, or shift into Sport mode and manually keep it in 2nd or 3rd (whichever depending on speed) on the freeway, like driving a manual car. I've never run into this with the ETC on my 07 Mustang GT or Cobalt SS Turbo. Those electronic throttles feel pretty much like cable throttles but both cars have manual transmissions.

    Any ideas?
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  5. #5
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    Torque source Trans truncation is a torque limit that can close the throttle. This can be disabled.

    Im not sure if sport mode just reduces it or eliminates it. If so it sounds like a shift enabled torque reduction. That can be disabled as well or if you have the upshift and downshift tables you can raise the torque limit values.
    "We can never be right, we can only be sure that we are wrong"- feynman

  6. #6
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Trans Torque Truncation is already disabled or set high (1000 ft-lb), no idea why it is kicking in at this specific condition. The transmission isn't shifting in my datalog. It's a steady gear throttle stab in/stab out/stab in condition. It does happen in Sport Mode when I manually pick a gear (e.g. 3rd gear at 70 MPH).

    Another situation where this happens is if I brake hard for a hairpin, and get on the gas at the apex of that turn, the engine doesn't react at all for about the same 1 second I showed in the datalog. I think Car and Driver even remarked how terrible the throttle response was on the SHO.
    Last edited by metroplex; 01-15-2017 at 01:13 PM.

  7. #7
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    There's some throttle position tip in and out for the torque convertor clutch release. Not sure if you have those tables to adjust when the TCC releases for tip ins.

    You should raise your TCC limit as well.
    "We can never be right, we can only be sure that we are wrong"- feynman

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Hmmm, I don't think it is an issue of the TCC unlocking/locking but the TCC limit is already raised.

  9. #9
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    any luck with this issue? I'm having the same problem with my car.
    Car will bog for about a second when I go Instant WOT from low RPM OR even revving motor.
    If it is in higher RPM its not as bad, but I still have to roll into throttle.
    Also wants to bog from take off at times.
    M6 Car

  10. #10
    Someone found the culprit ?