E38 ECM plus... BCM?

[bloc]

Hello all,

I'm swapping an L92 and 6L80E into a toyota landcruiser. My plan was to use HPTuners for VATS and unneeded emissions hardware delete, as well as integrate the BCM so that I have Cruise/TUTD shifting/tow-haul, and possibly P/N interlock and reverse lights.

I've seen a few mentions online on various sites of this working, but don't see much in the way of details. I also have seen mention that using a VATS delete (which I will need) can disable communication between the BCM and PCM.. obviously not a good scenario for my goals.

Has anyone here made this work? Does HPTuners allow any work on the BCM? (it was suggested a few years ago in a thread in this forum, but I'm too new to link it )

Thanks for any help.. this place is awesome. I can't wait to get started working with HPT

[biker1007]

Did you manage to get the BCM functions working? Everything I search comes up as either a mention of needing a BCM for cruise, tow/haul, and tu/td or a thread with no resolution like yours. I searched your posts since and it looks like you are still going the BCM route. Any help is appreciated.

[bloc]

Not yet.. I got the truck together enough to take my first trip then realized the transmission needs rebuilt. Working on that now. When the tranny goes back in the BCM will be my focus over the next month.

Things I have learned in the meantime though..

*According to HPTuners support the VATS delete shouldn't disable BCM communications.
*adding the BCM HAS been done, there is a shop doing LS swaps into Jeeps (motech) that does incorporate the BCM. the owner of this shop has posted small amounts of useful info in various places.. the best of which is follow the stock GM EWD. No idea what tuning software he's using though.
*pics of the motech harness + BCM are available in an online magazine article about a jeep LS swap done by motech. This gives you some idea of the needed wires on the BCM. (LOTS get pulled)
*EFILive has a new feature that allows their module to flash the BCM with a custom file generated by a couple people working with EFILive. I still decided to use HPTuners, despite it not being able to do anything to the BCM.

Whenever I get this transmission done the BCM will be next. I did a 4k mile roadtrip with no cruise control in May.. never again.

[Montecarlodrag]

I have used a couple BCMs in swapped vehicles. Turning VATS off doesn't disable BCM-ECM communications.
BCMs are great modules and easy to make work, they just use a lot of signals. The good thing is that they don't need everything to work, you can hook what you need and discard the rest.
The only problem is that they throw DTCs that pop to the cluster, you need to modify the programming but I don't know how to do that. If you aren't uning the cluster from the donor vehicle no problem then.

[bloc]

I have used a couple BCMs in swapped vehicles. Turning VATS off doesn't disable BCM-ECM communications.
BCMs are great modules and easy to make work, they just use a lot of signals. The good thing is that they don't need everything to work, you can hook what you need and discard the rest.
The only problem is that they throw DTCs that pop to the cluster, you need to modify the programming but I don't know how to do that. If you aren't uning the cluster from the donor vehicle no problem then.

How by-the-book did you have to be on powering up the BCM? GMs "DLIS" has a few different wires getting power at different ignition switch positions, and I've read that the order that it gets powered up is important.

I won't be using a GM cluster. I also want to enable the factory truck fast-idle switch, and the plan was to get the BCM working, log which U-codes come up and have whoever programs my BCM for the fast idle also eliminate those communication codes.

[87skier]

Did you ever get this working?

[bloc]

Did you ever get this working?

Mostly, yes. VATS delete was a non-issue.

I did not copy DLIS and simply gave the BCM ground, constant +12v, +12v accessory, and all of the GMLAN circuits as in the EWD. I now have smart charging, tap shifting (with a home-made copy of the truck switch, note that this needs a truck transmission tune), reverse lights, and cruise, all through the BCM. The only real glitch is that without a driver's door module installed to communicate with the BCM the "retained accessory power" timer never gets reset when you open the door. What this means for me is that after shutting off the ignition I must wait ten minutes before cranking again or I won't have cruise control. Tap shifting and smart charging don't have this issue, for some reason.

I'm reasonably confident copying the DLIS circuitry would avoid the 10-minute issue with cruise, even without a door module.. however it's not worth the work to try and copy DLIS.. or at least the ten minute timer isn't enough of a problem to justify it for me. White Audio Media can probably program a BCM to ditch the timer, not sure what they'd charge.

Also note that if my understanding of all of this is correct, you'll need a BCM that is coded with the same VIN as the engine/transmission. So grab yours with the swap stuff.. otherwise I don't think it's worth the work.

[87skier]

Mostly, yes. VATS delete was a non-issue.

I did not copy DLIS and simply gave the BCM ground, constant +12v, +12v accessory, and all of the GMLAN circuits as in the EWD. I now have smart charging, tap shifting (with a home-made copy of the truck switch, note that this needs a truck transmission tune), reverse lights, and cruise, all through the BCM. The only real glitch is that without a driver's door module installed to communicate with the BCM the "retained accessory power" timer never gets reset when you open the door. What this means for me is that after shutting off the ignition I must wait ten minutes before cranking again or I won't have cruise control. Tap shifting and smart charging don't have this issue, for some reason.

I'm reasonably confident copying the DLIS circuitry would avoid the 10-minute issue with cruise, even without a door module.. however it's not worth the work to try and copy DLIS.. or at least the ten minute timer isn't enough of a problem to justify it for me. White Audio Media can probably program a BCM to ditch the timer, not sure what they'd charge.

Also note that if my understanding of all of this is correct, you'll need a BCM that is coded with the same VIN as the engine/transmission. So grab yours with the swap stuff.. otherwise I don't think it's worth the work.

Thanks for the speedy response! I didn't get the BCM when I got my engine/transmission, but the vehicle is still in the yard, so I'll pick it when I get out there again. That's sort of strange issue with the driver door module and cruise.

What is smart charging? and we are only talking about connecting the high speed GMLAN circuits to engine and transmission and not the low/medium speed for the other modules?

[bloc]

Thanks for the speedy response! I didn't get the BCM when I got my engine/transmission, but the vehicle is still in the yard, so I'll pick it when I get out there again. That's sort of strange issue with the driver door module and cruise.

What is smart charging? and we are only talking about connecting the high speed GMLAN circuits to engine and transmission and not the low/medium speed for the other modules?

Yeah, I'm not certain it is the Retained Accessory Power situation, but it is definitely a 10-minute timer on the restart for cruise, and that's the only 10-minute "feature" I can find.

Smart charging allows the proper use of the 2-wire alternator installed on GenIV engines with no modifications. If you stick with 2-wire and don't have the BCM controlling the alternator it'll default to 11.8 volts or something low. Smart charging requires GMLAN, the BCM, and a 3-wire inductive ammeter that goes around the positive battery cable. Those three wires go to the BCM. It measures the current draw of the car and can increase alternator output before the system voltage actually drops. If you don't want smart charging the correct way to wire the vehicle is to convert the alternator to 4-wire, but this means soldering and ending up with an alternator you can't find at a random parts yard in the sticks if needed.

Also yes, high-speed GMLAN only. The low-speed stuff is not needed with my setup. If you want to use the GM gauge cluster or other modules like the doors, HVAC, etc, then yes you will need low-speed network. my CAN network goes ECM<->TCM<->BCM<->OBDII port.

[87skier]

Yeah, I'm not certain it is the Retained Accessory Power situation, but it is definitely a 10-minute timer on the restart for cruise, and that's the only 10-minute "feature" I can find.

Smart charging allows the proper use of the 2-wire alternator installed on GenIV engines with no modifications. If you stick with 2-wire and don't have the BCM controlling the alternator it'll default to 11.8 volts or something low. Smart charging requires GMLAN, the BCM, and a 3-wire inductive ammeter that goes around the positive battery cable. Those three wires go to the BCM. It measures the current draw of the car and can increase alternator output before the system voltage actually drops. If you don't want smart charging the correct way to wire the vehicle is to convert the alternator to 4-wire, but this means soldering and ending up with an alternator you can't find at a random parts yard in the sticks if needed.

Also yes, high-speed GMLAN only. The low-speed stuff is not needed with my setup. If you want to use the GM gauge cluster or other modules like the doors, HVAC, etc, then yes you will need low-speed network. my CAN network goes ECM<->TCM<->BCM<->OBDII port.

Didn't realize that's how the alternator controls were setup on the Gen IV stuff. I thought it was just looking at voltage. I have an L20 out of a van, and it looks like GM didn't implement any of this on the van's. VCM editor show's it being disabled in the factory tune.

I have no plans for the low speed LAN stuff at this point, just wanted to confirm that it isn't essential to be wired.

[theshop_steven]

Hey guys, i am trying to get all my BCM wiring figured out before i get home so that i can get straight back to work finishing this swap. I notice that on the BCM pinouts there are several wires that say "Except MEX" my donor was a mexico built truck. So i am trying to figure out if those wires are simply just not used or what the deal is. any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[theshop_steven]

Screenshot (15).png Here is an example of what i was talking about. The battery current sensor Pins 8, 9 ,10, 14, 18

[theshop_steven]

Bloc would you happen to have a copy of your tune file that I could take a look at. I got my swap done and I can see all the cruise stuff works when I press buttons but will not actually activate and hold speed. It seems that I pressed set but wont hold. I'm thinking there is something in my tune that I have wrong. Maybe in the speedometer stuff.

[blindsquirrel]

There is a add-on box that covers the commonly used BCM functions, but without a BCM. Reverse lights, TUTD, tow/haul, serial AC request, cruise, etc. Built by the guy (formerly?) associated with Motech. Works on Gen4 & Gen5.

https://youtu.be/vXnBMG-axm4

EDIT: No cruise, sorry. I forgot he said that's not covered because of potential liability stuff.

[kipps]

Yeah, I'm not certain it is the Retained Accessory Power situation, but it is definitely a 10-minute timer on the restart for cruise, and that's the only 10-minute "feature" I can find.

Old thread, but I ran across a tidbit of info in alldata literature.

Relay Control of Retained Accessory Power (RAP)

The body control module (BCM) keeps the internal RAP relay energized during all power modes, except Off-Awake and Crank. The relay is also energized for approximately 10 minutes after shutting the ignition OFF and removing the key, providing no door is opened. The BCM will de-energize the internal RAP relay at the same time the serial data message is sent to end RAP. When the internal RAP relay is energized voltage is applied on the accessory voltage circuit at BCM harness connector X5 terminal 11.

The devices powered by the internal RAP relay during the RAP power mode are the sunroof (CF5), the RAP/Spare PCB relay, and if equipped with RPO 9L4, the radio module fuse block relay A.

Evidently, during retained power state, the RAP relay is energized, and can be tested on x5-11. Might be a method of confirming your diagnosis.

[bilhamil]

I realize this is an old thread, but I have been using this thread in my work on similar swap to Bloc in a toyota land cruiser. I did initially encounter this same 10 minute cruise control timer issue as bloc, but I was eventually able to get cruise to work consistently without the 10 minute timeout.

What I was able to determine was that the cruise operation was somewhat dependent on the bcm being able to communicate with the instrument cluster over the low speed canbus. In my case, I was able to create an arduino based custom can module that would communicate over the the low speed gmlan canbus. This module basically spoofed sending the initial startup messages sent by the instrument cluster cluster as well as some messages that are sent periodically by the instrument cluster. After doing this, cruise works all the time every time. I also did wire in my door switches to BCM to try to check the RAP theory, but it didn't fix the issue. Note my swap and solutions are based on a E38 and bcm out of a 2013 silverado 5.3

You can see the code and pcb schematics for the can module here if you are interested: https://github.com/bilhamil/LS-Swap-CANBUS-Controller

[TheMechanic]

That may be the fix for some who are trying to off-board program E38's and are having the SPS warning about off board programming.

[UNSTUCK]

I'm also doing an L92/6L swap, but into a Jeep LJ. Working on the CC. I read somewhere that if the wheel speed sensors are not there the CC will not work. I have an alldata schematic on the CC that only shows BCM input from the transmission speed sensor, and nothing with the wheel speed sensors. Can one of you that has made CC work confirm that the wheel speed sensors are not needed?

Has any more been figured out with the 10 minute timer? I have the full donor vehicle so I could get the driver door module, but I run the jeep without doors quite a bit, so that seems like a hassle to mess with a door switch. Maybe it needs a micro spring switch that actuates with the shifter when put in park. Or something.

[UNSTUCK]

No thoughts on my questions above?

[TheMechanic]

This is what I use. Plugs into pedal
https://bp-automotive.com/product/cr...d-integration/