FSCM (FPCM) Tables/Settings - 2010 Camaro LS3 vs ZL1

[10_SS]

Truck is a 1st gen lightning , 5.3L 6L90E, procharger D1 15PSI, ECM AND TCM has zl1 base calibration.
Its my project truck, i can easily add the FPCM, as im running boost id like to know the actual fuel pressure and want the pcm to know it too, im currently runing return style with vacuum/boost signal, is it possible to remove the vacuum/boost hose and up the Fuel pressure regulator to 80-85 psi and let the fpcm to PWM the pump and control the fuel pressure?

Yes, in your free time I would think about adding a FPCM, reap the benefits of the OS. Your boosted so you will gain all of the benefits of Delta Pressure, not just fuel pressure. Then you really don't have to worry about things like clogging fuel filters, is my FP exactly perfect, whatever. I disconnected my BAP on my stock SS pump as a test and ran my FP down to about 20psi while at 10psi boost and my AFR held rock solid thanks to the IFR table. lol. I know the fuel wasn't atomized at that pressure and it was likely dribbling in like a waterfall but it still ran great, no noticable change in power or AFR and no knock. When your pump runs out of steam, it drops PSI FAST.

Yes the FPCM will run non-stock pumps just fine. I've read about them running dual pumps, single larger pumps, whatever, just fine at least nobody reported failures related to the pump.. but its kinda untested waters since HPT just recently gained access to the FPCM, most people with these year cars allready switched to dual always on pumps with returns similar to what you have. Some have used the dual pump with one pump on FPCM PWM, and second pump with Hobbs switch.

Me personally fixed my "weak" pump and it's common dropping FP when boosted just by flat lining the FP table in the FPCM. For years everyone thought it was a weak pump. Goes to show, dont trust what everybody thinks. They were wrong. It was being told to drop fuel pressure. Yes too bad it as a built in bypass. booo.

Let us know how you end up.

[castorjames]

Yes, in your free time I would think about adding a FPCM, reap the benefits of the OS. Your boosted so you will gain all of the benefits of Delta Pressure, not just fuel pressure. Then you really don't have to worry about things like clogging fuel filters, is my FP exactly perfect, whatever. I disconnected my BAP on my stock SS pump as a test and ran my FP down to about 20psi while at 10psi boost and my AFR held rock solid thanks to the IFR table. lol. I know the fuel wasn't atomized at that pressure and it was likely dribbling in like a waterfall but it still ran great, no noticable change in power or AFR and no knock. When your pump runs out of steam, it drops PSI FAST.

Yes the FPCM will run non-stock pumps just fine. I've read about them running dual pumps, single larger pumps, whatever, just fine at least nobody reported failures related to the pump.. but its kinda untested waters since HPT just recently gained access to the FPCM, most people with these year cars allready switched to dual always on pumps with returns similar to what you have. Some have used the dual pump with one pump on FPCM PWM, and second pump with Hobbs switch.

Me personally fixed my "weak" pump and it's common dropping FP when boosted just by flat lining the FP table in the FPCM. For years everyone thought it was a weak pump. Goes to show, dont trust what everybody thinks. They were wrong. It was being told to drop fuel pressure. Yes too bad it as a built in bypass. booo.

Let us know how you end up.

I really apreciate your time and thank you for the info too, i will do it this weekend and update results. thank you

[CRTD]

Can the FSCM be written in a way that it will produce 65 psi at high fuel demand? If yes, what is best way? Using the ZL1 pump and BAP in a 2013 Camaro SS.

The FSCM tables I found are a little different between the two (the actual car and the ZL1).

It is a procharger deal and is just a little short on injector.

Also the ECM injector flow rate table does not match the FSCM injector flow rate table. And, the labels are different as well. Shouldn't they match?

[2012LS3Vert]

The injector tables wont match, in the FSCM they dont go about 63 lb/hr. Just set your desired pressure to 65 psi in the FSCM.

[NotSure]

Just read this entire thread. I just installed a Whipple 2.3L on my bone stock flex fuel 6.2L (2013 Yukon), using their injectors (GM, I think basically the same as stock but different part number, 12613412). I noticed the AFR creeping up a bit towards the top but still safe, so I logged desired and actual fuel pressure. Desired is staying at 54 psi during a WOT run but actual drops down to 48 or so at the end. Inj pulse width is at 23.4 ms at 5900 rpm (115%!). It looks like Whipple upped the generator fuel system voltage to 14.5, and a stock CTS-V file from the repository has it at 16v in the lower rows (row axis unlabeled). Does the FSCM operate as a voltage booster as well? Also, I would think that since my desired pressure is not dropping as some have described, I actually do have a fuel system problem? I do see that the pressure is commanded lower in the higher flow rates as others have described, but still the desired is not dropping, just the actual. At idle, injectors are running 1.9 ms and it is commanding 58 psi.

I am going to log all of the other FSCM parameters next, but does anyone know if the desired pressure reported is actually true, or are these other charts taking over what is truly happening and the desired pid is lying? It is just that my condition is so similar to others here, but I have much less motor. I'm running the standard E10 that they call gasoline here, with an actual composition sensor. I don't think I should need a pump upgrade.

[10_SS]

yea seems your losing a bit of pressure,
but not much. Injector Delta pressure is another one worth logging, and Inj %, then Fuel Pump DC, but my PID for that stops reporting correctly with every beta update so it always says 99%. When its workinh then I get aomething like 30% at idle for Fuel Pump DC.

No the FSCM doesnt boost voltage, just PWM the fuel pump at batt voltage. thats prob why they boost alternator voltage to get more power from the pump. Id say your fine, but your out of room for more power.

[NotSure]

yea seems your losing a bit of pressure,
but not much. Injector Delta pressure is another one worth logging, and Inj %, then Fuel Pump DC, but my PID for that stops reporting correctly with every beta update so it always says 99%. When its workinh then I get aomething like 30% at idle for Fuel Pump DC.

No the FSCM doesnt boost voltage, just PWM the fuel pump at batt voltage. thats prob why they boost alternator voltage to get more power from the pump. Id say your fine, but your out of room for more power.

I am going to try to adjust for fuel press desired/actual difference by a math I created and see if any effect, as well as up the max from 370 to 400 Kpa for ?high flow? and see if it makes a difference. But for what Mowton said, I am also in open loop, and at WOT the fuel status or whatever it?s called goes from ?cold? to ?high flow?, which is what I raised to 400. I still can?t believe I?m out of pump already though on a stock engine.

[2012LS3Vert]

Yep. I set mine to 14.5 because the 5th gens are set to 12.5 from the factory, so it reduces voltage, but it cannot increase it. So 14.5 is about what the alternator can put out, so going higher than that wont do anything. And I agree with 10_SS, you are probably good for now, but that injector DC wont let you go any higher.

[2012LS3Vert]

Not out of pump, likely out of injector. When injector DC gets close to 100%, they are basically open all the time, so pump cant build pressure.

[10_SS]

oops, didnt notice he was at 115% Inj DC. Yep need bigger injectors. But still if your losing pressure, your also out of pump if your pump is at 99% DC, thats as high as it can go. Having more fuel pressure will help lower the Injector DC some, but prob only to around 110%, you still need bigger injectors. I would not worry about the pump for now.

[10_SS]

I still can?t believe I?m out of pump already though on a stock engine.

I thought you said you added a Whipple. But why would Whipple send you stock flow injectors? I thought you mentioned they were the same as stock. As you can tell I dont read all of every post. My ADD kicking in. lol

My Whipple for LS3 Camaro came with bigger injectors to cover that, and my max is around 70% Injector DC, and they sent an MSD Boost A Pump, without the BAP I drop pressure like a rock somewhere around 5500rpm due to pump giving up on stock voltage, I normally run to around 6500rpm. So if your able to do similar things and not run out on stock pump, that's pretty good actually. They don't throw much extra in for injectors or pumps on stock non-performance cars since $1 saved per vehicle when possible is pretty huge in the long run...

As you may have read they put regulators on the pumps these days, yours is probably around 58psi so it just dumps fuel back to the tank beyond that. Really your not going to notice a difference in power from losing 5-10psi fuel pressure at those power levels and fuel flow, 700-800hp maybe you can gain a bit from running higher pressure since it atomizes all that fuel better at higher pressure.

Below you can see the difference higher fuel pressure has on Injector DC. Now, they say 80% should be max for Injector DC, but I personally wouldnt not bother getting bigger ones unless I saw it starting to lean out with no change from increasing fueling.. usually that is above 100% Injector DC. After all, that is just an ECU calculation. If Im not knocking, and AFR looks good, plugs look even then I wouldn't change injectors. You sound like you need them. Sometimes they are rated at different pressures, the GM injectors may be rated at 58psi but the Whipple injectors may be rated at 43psi, so the flow may look the same but that's because the Whipple injectors were tested at lower fuel pressure.

Stock FPCM Settings with MSD Boost A Pump
rpm---Fuel psi/desired-----Inj DC----Pump DC
5000--48/50----------------60--------81.6
6000--46/48----------------73--------91.4

400kpa--Fuel Pressure flat across (file 136h)
5000----57/58--------------54--------85.9
6000----61/58--------------60--------95.0

[jpierro79]

most injectors will rate flow rate at 90 percent dc. How they rate is not always 90 percent dc mark. some are capped lower due to irregular fuel flow above a certain percentage. some are rated due to anything over a certain fuel pressure they have irregularity opening. If your flow rate are higher than 100 percent that means your spraying fuel beyond the maximum acceptable time during intake valve opening and your fuel can begin to just keep spraying onto the valve and sit there till it opens again. That very dangerous for knock and engine life. I saw that 115 percent duty cycle and my jaw dropped? Either that dc is wrong or someone is running on borrowed time. The most economical way to fix that is bigger injectors retune with lower fuel pressure. Turning the fuel pressure way up is a bandaid and will only decrease the life of your fuel pump. May be out of fuel but it might not have anything to due with fuel pump. yes your losing pressure . You can go bigger injector and retune at lower psi and see if you lose pressure at top again. If you do then get rest of fuel system. Many people also think zl1 needs a boost a pump a 600 whp mark. This isn't true either. Many of those bolt on and go systems are all about numbers. Promise big hp but are risky. Custom is safer. just look at fuel flow vs psi in atttahed picture and think about how its safer to runner bigger injectors w less pressure and get same result with out over straining the fuel pump. more even flow and less erratic changes. I run 52 psi closed loop and 58 open theres no point in pushing my fuel pump if im not using it and with id1050 injectors with a rating of that at 48 psi i could run 48 psi all day with head room but as one person says you will get better atomization with higher pressure but and BUT lower fuel pressure and bigger injectors lower dc is way safer than higher pressure and 115 percent dc or even anything above 90 percent. Raising fuel pressure 10 percent doesnt even equate to 10 decrease in dc on some injectors cause they arent strong enough to open. this is just a general response im not aiming at anyone so no one take offense please.

[NotSure]

I say they sent stock injectors, as they are GM 12613412 flex fuel injectors. Different part number than what the truck had even though it is a flex fuel truck. I gather they are 42 lb injectors from searching but at what pressure i don’t know. I still have the pump duty cycle max at 90%, unchanged by Whipple from stock tune. I can try to bump this up I suppose, this is a DD so other than an occasional blast through 1st and 2nd, that is about the only time it sees peak rpm.

If I go to bigger injectors, any recommendations?

[jpierro79]

anything 850cc should be more than enough head room without sacraficing driveability. Fast injectors i hear are good. fuel injector clinic and most people use injector dynamics. Reason being injector dynamics has a serial number for all their injectors and if one goes bad you can send it in and they can check the characteristics from when they first made the injector and get you one to match your batch you bought. No other company I know does this. Most others you buy one injector and hope you get one close enough because injectors are sent out in a match set. I have my stock zl1 injectors but at 48 psi its only going to be 10lbs more flow about. theyve on got 20 k on them. I dont know i theyll direct fit as there is two styles gm uses. Theyll definitely be easier to tune. they use same ones in zr1 as well. not a big upgrade but a heck of a lot cheaper pm me if you want price. there good for about 600 crank at that 48 psi. dont know what your pushing now ? at 48 psi fuel pressure according to Fuel injector clinic calculator a 47lbhr injector is good for up to 650 crank hp. if that is helpful according to stock gm scaling at 48 psi stock zl1 injectors will flow about 48lbhr
your rating on that part number for that injectors
440 cc/min - 42 lbs/hr at 43psi (3BAR) of pressure
520 cc/min - 50 lbs/hr at 58psi (4BAR) of pressure
youd have to swap the caps on the end of the injectors in order to use zl1 injectors i did some research
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/d...make/chevrolet these are good replacement also

[castorjames]

Yes, in your free time I would think about adding a FPCM, reap the benefits of the OS. Your boosted so you will gain all of the benefits of Delta Pressure, not just fuel pressure. Then you really don't have to worry about things like clogging fuel filters, is my FP exactly perfect, whatever. I disconnected my BAP on my stock SS pump as a test and ran my FP down to about 20psi while at 10psi boost and my AFR held rock solid thanks to the IFR table. lol. I know the fuel wasn't atomized at that pressure and it was likely dribbling in like a waterfall but it still ran great, no noticable change in power or AFR and no knock. When your pump runs out of steam, it drops PSI FAST.

Yes the FPCM will run non-stock pumps just fine. I've read about them running dual pumps, single larger pumps, whatever, just fine at least nobody reported failures related to the pump.. but its kinda untested waters since HPT just recently gained access to the FPCM, most people with these year cars allready switched to dual always on pumps with returns similar to what you have. Some have used the dual pump with one pump on FPCM PWM, and second pump with Hobbs switch.

Me personally fixed my "weak" pump and it's common dropping FP when boosted just by flat lining the FP table in the FPCM. For years everyone thought it was a weak pump. Goes to show, dont trust what everybody thinks. They were wrong. It was being told to drop fuel pressure. Yes too bad it as a built in bypass. booo.

Let us know how you end up.

Hi, i just installed the FPCM to my truck, and just tested and it is working, now i can log fuel pressure, im not using the module to control the fuel pump, my fuel system is a return style , FPR with vacuum/boost signal, currently my Flow rate vs press is all cells to: 94.5lb/hr,im using 80LB Siemens Deka, do i need to modify this table so the ecm knows how much if flows at certain pressure delta or should i just leave it alone? Thank you very much

[10_SS]

Hi, i just installed the FPCM to my truck, and just tested and it is working, now i can log fuel pressure, im not using the module to control the fuel pump, my fuel system is a return style , FPR with vacuum/boost signal, currently my Flow rate vs press is all cells to: 94.5lb/hr,im using 80LB Siemens Deka, do i need to modify this table so the ecm knows how much if flows at certain pressure delta or should i just leave it alone? Thank you very much

I would, especially in the lower fuel pressure zones. It works really good, my AFR was always rock solid even though my fuel pressure would drop down to 20psi from 58. You never know when you run low on FP even if it's just for a second.

[jpierro79]

That’s a massive drop. The fpcm has a voltage scal and if you used ls3 fpcm program it’s goibg to drop like a stone. It’s set to lower on ls3 cause with vacuum it pulls more. Can you post your fpcm read?? Maybe I can help you keep your fuel pressure that is not safe 20 psi cause fuel will not mix your squirting instead of spraying out of injectors it WILL cause detonation. Ls3 fpcm not designed for boosted app
The injector flow rate tables in fpcm are designed to estimate fuel pump duty cycle to keep up with your injector fuel flow. You won’t loose afr cause your pcm is calculating losses cause it can read fuel pressure but your fpcm doesn’t or won’t flow more cause it can’t read you have bigger injectors unless you tell it
Change your max dc in fuel to 100 percent and go to base under rpm above 2000 change it to max at 100 percent this will give you at least ten percent more fuel flow not pressure flow change your high normal and default to 400kpa this will keep you from going over 58psi

[castorjames]

That’s a massive drop. The fpcm has a voltage scal and if you used ls3 fpcm program it’s goibg to drop like a stone. It’s set to lower on ls3 cause with vacuum it pulls more. Can you post your fpcm read?? Maybe I can help you keep your fuel pressure that is not safe 20 psi cause fuel will not mix your squirting instead of spraying out of injectors it WILL cause detonation. Ls3 fpcm not designed for boosted app
The injector flow rate tables in fpcm are designed to estimate fuel pump duty cycle to keep up with your injector fuel flow. You won’t loose afr cause your pcm is calculating losses cause it can read fuel pressure but your fpcm doesn’t or won’t flow more cause it can’t read you have bigger injectors unless you tell it
Change your max dc in fuel to 100 percent and go to base under rpm above 2000 change it to max at 100 percent this will give you at least ten percent more fuel flow not pressure flow change your high normal and default to 400kpa this will keep you from going over 58psi

Im sure that pressure was on a test he was doing

[castorjames]

I would, especially in the lower fuel pressure zones. It works really good, my AFR was always rock solid even though my fuel pressure would drop down to 20psi from 58. You never know when you run low on FP even if it's just for a second.

does my flow rate vs press looks ok? doesnt need to be flat? or this table just let know the pcm what the flow of the injector at certaing pressure?

[jpierro79]

ok so if your only using it for reading pressure these settings wont help. You need a bigger pump. for thos who have a fpcm being used these settings will help in fuel pressure drop and it will NOT change how the vehicle runs. The other option if you have a return style system and you can install a pump inline with a pressure trigger. it will fix your falling pressure just dont go crazy just around 250 lph. id try to install it before the pressure sensor if you can. i have pictures of an actual fpcm read not this stuff about people saying the fpcm cant be raised above 58 psi in a non return system but you can clearly see in the images max desired pressure can be changed. The max desired pressure under this table dictates the max pressure of the pump and it can be raised to whatever you want. sorry no matter what way i turn the pics they seem to post sideways here