FSCM (FPCM) Tables/Settings - 2010 Camaro LS3 vs ZL1

[10_SS]

I read entire FSCM only. Then read entire ECM and Trans only. One file for the FSCM and another for the engine/tranny.

Good plan, good things to have for sure.

Regarding the ADM file.. it's not really reading the ADM file but it is downloading the GM stock calibration for the VIN of the car correct? Or is it the VIN of the Serial/OS of the FSCM module?

The File is comparing equal to a ZL1 FPCM.. as it should be though right?

[mcfarlnd]

Good plan, good things to have for sure.

Regarding the ADM file.. it's not really reading the ADM file but it is downloading the GM stock calibration for the VIN of the car correct? Or is it the VIN of the Serial/OS of the FSCM module?

The File is comparing equal to a ZL1 FPCM.. as it should be though right?

You are correct. Whatever VIN/OS is stashed in the FSCM.

[avido]

and the question is... if this is something real modified ...and not a zl1... how could they modified it since nobody could write it?

[mcfarlnd]

and the question is... if this is something real modified ...and not a zl1... how could they modified it since nobody could write it?

Don't believe I'm following what you are asking/ stating

[avido]

Don't believe I'm following what you are asking/ stating

Adm sells fpcm with a special calibration. How is possible for them to write a blank module with a custom settings? Or are they simply selling a zl1 fpcm?

[[email protected]]

Question for 10_SS or whoever may know the answer - We have a Whipple powered 2011 Camaro SS we are "experimenting" with at our shop. Right now with our custom 6 rib pulley system we are making 18-19psi. Stock fuel pump, MSD voltage booster. If I m reading this thread correctly the factory pump is regulating at 58psi. So regardless of how much voltage I supply with the MSD BAP the pressure at the injector rail will never be greater than 58psi due to the internal regulator? Factoring in 18psi of boost that will be equivalent to 40psi (58-18) effective at the injector. Can modifying the factory FPCM improve this? From 10_SS's previous post it seems that he was able to reduce the injector duty cycle by increasing the "Max Pressure" table to 400kpa across the board.

Do I have a correct understanding here of what is required to make a stock Camaro SS pump flow more - especially above 6000rpm?

My second question is - would installing a CTSV pump basket and setting the Max Pressure to 450kpa work as well?

Thanks in advance!

[DSteck]

I make an aux pump setup that would give you all you need. I think you're just asking a lot from a stock pump. Upping requested pressure isn't going to make the pump flow more, especially if it's losing pressure.

[10_SS]

Question for 10_SS or whoever may know the answer - We have a Whipple powered 2011 Camaro SS we are "experimenting" with at our shop. Right now with our custom 6 rib pulley system we are making 18-19psi. Stock fuel pump, MSD voltage booster. If I m reading this thread correctly the factory pump is regulating at 58psi. So regardless of how much voltage I supply with the MSD BAP the pressure at the injector rail will never be greater than 58psi due to the internal regulator? Factoring in 18psi of boost that will be equivalent to 40psi (58-18) effective at the injector. Can modifying the factory FPCM improve this? From 10_SS's previous post it seems that he was able to reduce the injector duty cycle by increasing the "Max Pressure" table to 400kpa across the board.

Do I have a correct understanding here of what is required to make a stock Camaro SS pump flow more - especially above 6000rpm?

My second question is - would installing a CTSV pump basket and setting the Max Pressure to 450kpa work as well?

Thanks in advance!

Yes on the 1st part, stock SS pump will hold 58psi rock solid with MSD Boost A Pump if you want it too, at least up to 9-10psi on stock cam Whipple LS3 to 6700rpm. Right now you should see your "Desired Fuel Pressure" drop (stock), so the pump drops pressure to meet request. If you havent added the new PID "Desired Fuel Pressure" you should do that now to see what's going on. I changed mine to 58psi and it held 100% of what Desired Pressure said, then backed mine down to 55psi just to make sure I wasn't bypassing the regulator at WOT and causing the pump to waste fuel to the bypass, and still the actual FP and Desired FP match 100% of the time. There's also a Fuel Pump Commanded DC in there too, check that out but for whatever reason scanner is messing up and I have to remove that PID and re-add for it to work right... it gets stuck showing 99.7% all the time, this is wrong. Not sure it will hold 58psi with 18psi boost... that's allot more fuel. You wont increase your Injector Delta Pressure past the original Fuel Pressure limit of 58psi since the pump wont go higher than that due to bypass. If you see fuel pressure drop now and you see the Requested FP is also dropping, then yes you will see improvement by setting that table higher for sure. I also think if you go above 58psi then maybe the pump will work even harder to try to meet that pressure so be careful, but there are other areas in the tune that also have pressure limits so watch the FP Commanded DC % for hints if you see 58psi and wonder if it's actually trying to output 65psi.

2nd question, a CTSV pump should work... however I haven't tried it.

Third, the stock SS pump is being told to drop pressure, it's not actually the cause of the lost pressure. My actual fuel pressure (stock would drop) follows the pressure listed in the FPCM until you increase higher than 58psi then it flatlines due to bypass. I'm not even sure the MSD BAP is even needed at this point (stock CAM Whipple 9psi), but maybe it is. One day I'll remove the BAP and see what happens. I suppose I could just remove the vacuum line going to it. I suspect the SS pump cant reliably handle the higher flow rate/PSI over the long term, that's the only reason I can see GM reducing pressure at higher requested fuel flow. I know tool makers like Dewalt and Milwaukee limit how much RPM+Amps they design into their guns to keep the motors alive for the long run, only know this since we worked with them to design a new battery dispense gun for work... we wanted more power/speed but they said yes for R&D that is fine, but not for long term consumer use.

I personally want the Livernois dual pump setup now that we can adjust the FPCM... seems like all I would need for a long time.

[avido]

I believe that with a such big pressure you need an external regulator with boost reference

[[email protected]]

I make an aux pump setup that would give you all you need. I think you're just asking a lot from a stock pump. Upping requested pressure isn't going to make the pump flow more, especially if it's losing pressure.

I agree. A new fuel system is definitely in the cards and we are not fans of fuel pump voltage boosters. Can you link me to your aux pump and pricing please?

Yes on the 1st part, stock SS pump will hold 58psi rock solid with MSD Boost A Pump if you want it too, at least up to 9-10psi on stock cam Whipple LS3 to 6700rpm. Right now you should see your "Desired Fuel Pressure" drop (stock), so the pump drops pressure to meet request. If you havent added the new PID "Desired Fuel Pressure" you should do that now to see what's going on. I changed mine to 58psi and it held 100% of what Desired Pressure said, then backed mine down to 55psi just to make sure I wasn't bypassing the regulator at WOT and causing the pump to waste fuel to the bypass, and still the actual FP and Desired FP match 100% of the time. There's also a Fuel Pump Commanded DC in there too, check that out but for whatever reason scanner is messing up and I have to remove that PID and re-add for it to work right... it gets stuck showing 99.7% all the time, this is wrong. Not sure it will hold 58psi with 18psi boost... that's allot more fuel. You wont increase your Injector Delta Pressure past the original Fuel Pressure limit of 58psi since the pump wont go higher than that due to bypass. If you see fuel pressure drop now and you see the Requested FP is also dropping, then yes you will see improvement by setting that table higher for sure. I also think if you go above 58psi then maybe the pump will work even harder to try to meet that pressure so be careful, but there are other areas in the tune that also have pressure limits so watch the FP Commanded DC % for hints if you see 58psi and wonder if it's actually trying to output 65psi.

2nd question, a CTSV pump should work... however I haven't tried it.

Third, the stock SS pump is being told to drop pressure, it's not actually the cause of the lost pressure. My actual fuel pressure (stock would drop) follows the pressure listed in the FPCM until you increase higher than 58psi then it flatlines due to bypass. I'm not even sure the MSD BAP is even needed at this point (stock CAM Whipple 9psi), but maybe it is. One day I'll remove the BAP and see what happens. I suppose I could just remove the vacuum line going to it. I suspect the SS pump cant reliably handle the higher flow rate/PSI over the long term, that's the only reason I can see GM reducing pressure at higher requested fuel flow. I know tool makers like Dewalt and Milwaukee limit how much RPM+Amps they design into their guns to keep the motors alive for the long run, only know this since we worked with them to design a new battery dispense gun for work... we wanted more power/speed but they said yes for R&D that is fine, but not for long term consumer use.

I personally want the Livernois dual pump setup now that we can adjust the FPCM... seems like all I would need for a long time.

Right now if we make a 4th gear pull on the dyno our fueling is good (.75 lambda) to redline (6800). This is a Mustang dyno so it is somewhat realistic with a load being applied.
When we do a 1/4 mile pull the shifts are called for at 6800 but taking place at 7-7100 and the fueling goes to .82 lambda at the higher rpm. If we can get a 5-7% more fuel just so we can get it to the track this Friday then we will be golden.
Then the CTSV pumps will go in or I can buy an auxiliary pump from DSteck. Ultimately if we keep pushing this we will install a complete return style fuel system.

I believe that with a such big pressure you need an external regulator with boost reference

Agreed and we will probably go there shortly. We weren't sure that we could get the Whipple to run a 3" pulley and make this much boost. Now that we can I want to see how far we can push this before switching to a turbo.

Thanks for the feedback folks!

[[email protected]]

Possibly a stupid question - do we have to request a beta for this option for the FPCM? I sent a request yesterday but wondered if it was required or if we just have to do another read with the latest VCM 3.6?

Update - The answer to my question is "yes" concerning the request for a beta version. I installed and opened the current tune file and there is no FPCM tab so I assume the answer to my question concerning if a new read must be done is also - yes.

[RRRocketMan]

Possibly a stupid question - do we have to request a beta for this option for the FPCM? I sent a request yesterday but wondered if it was required or if we just have to do another read with the latest VCM 3.6?

Update - The answer to my question is "yes" concerning the request for a beta version. I installed and opened the current tune file and there is no FPCM tab so I assume the answer to my question concerning if a new read must be done is also - yes.

Correct. First you have to request the beta, then you have to read the car... and if the software detects the right OSIDs from the hardware, it will give you a stock FPCM tune and integrate that into the normal interface. Then you'll see the FPCM tab you're looking for with the aforementioned tables.

[RRRocketMan]

One day I'll remove the BAP and see what happens. I suppose I could just remove the vacuum line going to it.

Please do this. I (and probably others) would love to see the actual limits of the pump being reached WITHOUT software overrides confusing the situation. Since you have already changed the commanded pressure, you could just lay into the throttle gently without the BAP and let off at the first sign of fuel pressure dropping. There would be enough data in your log to calculate the fuel flow limit of the pump under its own voltage and 100% duty. We have already heard numbers thrown around such as 560 WHP being the limit of the pump but I suspect this is based on the stock behaviour of the FPCM and that there is a little more we can squeeze out of this pump. I wouldn't worry too much about the pump dying. The pressure is irrelevant for the durability of the pump. It's the voltage (and current) that matter and this only gets raised in response to running out of DC% and only during short transients of WOT and the pump itself has a safety factor on it by design that is probably 30% or greater so I don't think you could ever blow it up merely through tuning. Besides the BAP is harder on the pump than the stock electrical system ever could be.

[10_SS]

Please do this. I (and probably others) would love to see the actual limits of the pump being reached WITHOUT software overrides confusing the situation. Since you have already changed the commanded pressure, you could just lay into the throttle gently without the BAP and let off at the first sign of fuel pressure dropping. There would be enough data in your log to calculate the fuel flow limit of the pump under its own voltage and 100% duty. We have already heard numbers thrown around such as 560 WHP being the limit of the pump but I suspect this is based on the stock behaviour of the FPCM and that there is a little more we can squeeze out of this pump. I wouldn't worry too much about the pump dying. The pressure is irrelevant for the durability of the pump. It's the voltage (and current) that matter and this only gets raised in response to running out of DC% and only during short transients of WOT and the pump itself has a safety factor on it by design that is probably 30% or greater so I don't think you could ever blow it up merely through tuning. Besides the BAP is harder on the pump than the stock electrical system ever could be.

You dont need beta anymore, it's the current download should be 3.6.5. YOu do have re-read the car though, and when you click READ, you should see a new controller listed, Manual trans Camaro's used to have one, auto cars have two normally, now you should see 2 for manual, 3 for auto. The new one is the FPCM. It will download the OS for your FPCM from the internet since the FPCM cant actually be read.

Agreed with the power going to the FPCM, I was seeing high 99% at 6700rpm with the BAP and corrected FPCM settings, but the FPCM doesnt know about the BAP. I have a feeling without the BAP but with the new FPCM settings my fuel pressure may end up just like it was with the BAP and stock FPCM (dropping 10psi). I saw at least 10psi increase at WOT 6000rpm, more above that just from flat lining the FPCM table. That changed my Injector DC from 73% to 60%... that's 13% drop in duty cycle from adding 10psi for $50, well worth it. Basically I upgraded my injectors by 13% for $50 without having to do any work, but I do have a BAP so maybe tonight or tomorrow I can see what happens with the hose unplugged. Also agree about the 30% more power just nobody has done this before so who knows, since we can add at least 50% to a bone stock LS3 via boost and no problems, or almost any motor for that matter.

[RRRocketMan]

I have a feeling without the BAP but with the new FPCM settings my fuel pressure may end up just like it was with the BAP and stock FPCM (dropping 10psi).

Without the BAP, in theory, the modified FPCM will maintain 58psi by means of pump voltage by overriding the alternator duty cycle (or whatever chops it to the fuel system). There's a table for that voltage that we had access to before the beta. Jannety says you can't go any higher than 14.5V in that table so basically, you should see flow gains from 2 things: 1) maxing out the allowable voltage at 14.5 and 2) preventing the DC from decaying with increasing RPM as it was doing stock. I don't know what % gain this is but it's not trivial. This is definitely viable as a BAP replacement if all you need is 50HP more for example.

[10_SS]

Without the BAP, in theory, the modified FPCM will maintain 58psi by means of pump voltage by overriding the alternator duty cycle (or whatever chops it to the fuel system). There's a table for that voltage that we had access to before the beta. Jannety says you can't go any higher than 14.5V in that table so basically, you should see flow gains from 2 things: 1) maxing out the allowable voltage at 14.5 and 2) preventing the DC from decaying with increasing RPM as it was doing stock. I don't know what % gain this is but it's not trivial. This is definitely viable as a BAP replacement if all you need is 50HP more for example.

I think the decreasing PSI was only happening over a certain Fuel Flow Rate, which I dont think the stock SS ever saw that high of flow rate without boost... but yea basically same thing your saying.

I would love to ditch the BAP.. it actually creates FM static on weak stations, which means if you live far out then the MSD BAP just car running creats enough noise to make my stations static. Noticed this the instant I insalled it. Was looking at bigger pumps just to eliminate the BAP for this single reason.

[[email protected]]

If anyone cares.....
Here's what we tried today:
1. I did a read with my new beta and it provided a FPCM file for the car.
2. I modified the "Desired Pressure" across the board to 480kpa (or whatever the highest number in the table provided was set to).
3. 10_SS was correct in that the provided FPCM file showed decreasing values for the "Desired Pressure" as the flow rates increased.
4. Loaded the FPCM file in the car and it ran extremely rich.
5. Set all the values back to the "stock" Desired Pressure in the provided file, loaded the FPCM only and it still ran rich.
6. Checked the FPCM injector flow rates and they were set to stock injectors.
7. Modified the FPCM injector flow rate to match my 80# to the best of my ability (the x axis has different break points than the PCM injector flow rate table).
8. Loaded the FPCM file and it ran much better. Fine tuned the VVE and MAF and did some pulls.
9. The changes made a slight difference but I really think we are at the limit of the current fuel system for this application so it may not be a fair test.
10. I did notice that the "desired pressure" remained at 58psi but the calculated pressure dropped to 41psi at full boost (19psi).
11. Turned the BAP up to 22 volts at 250kpa and made another pull.
12. Now the "calculated" pressure remained at 57-58psi, injector DC dropped and we now have plenty of WOT fuel.
13. We did a 1/4 mile pull to verify and all was good and we made plans for the track tomorrow.

Now for the bad news
1. Loaded some minor MAF changes at cruising speed above 3000hz
2. Put the car in gear to do some gentle cruising and it wouldn't move!!!
3. No noises, banging or clunking. It just would not go forward or in reverse
4. It does appear to be under a very slight load if I give it throttle. I didn't want to give it too much but it basically spins freely to 3500 which is all the further I wanted to take it.

Any thoughts? Commanded gear changes in TUTD from 1 to 2 but won't go higher (not sure if it ever did previously).

It's a built trans with FTI 3200, PATC Phoenix "Super Master" Level 4 kit.

No racing tomorrow for us.....

Who are the go to guys for building the 6l80e?

Thanks again in advance!

[10_SS]

wow that sucks about the trans, really sucks.

Ran without the BAP hose and it hold solid to around 5500rpm then started falling FAST. all the way down to 31psi. At 31psi ant 6500rpm I am at 106% Injector DC.

I dont know whats up with SCanner, 3.5. latest BETA's and 3.6.5, my Fuel Pump DC doesnt work anymore, my Fuel PRessure Desired always reads 58psi (used to go to 54psi which is where actual PSI hangs for awhile at WOT until 5500rpm when FP drops off so I know the FPCM is asking for 54psi, and I get all kinds of SCANNER FREEZES AFTER going WOT.

Starting to hate this software now all I do is spend my time debugging crap trying to figure out why things in scanner dont work, I used to love it.

Log of a WOT run with MSD BAP hose removed, Fuel Pump DC not working, Desired FP stuck at 58psi.. in the last the Fuel Pump DC was stuck at 99.7% but is a scanner issue
139b BAP WOTS TPS FREEZE PSI DROP SNIPPET.hpl

[GHuggins]

Changing subject - I know, but did you tune the torque model so the trans wouldn't burn up? Did you lock the converter clutch while the car was rolling on the dyno, but while letting off the throttle to do your pulls? Sounds like pump or converter failure

[[email protected]]

wow that sucks about the trans, really sucks.

Ran without the BAP hose and it hold solid to around 5500rpm then started falling FAST. all the way down to 31psi. At 31psi ant 6500rpm I am at 106% Injector DC.

I dont know whats up with SCanner, 3.5. latest BETA's and 3.6.5, my Fuel Pump DC doesnt work anymore, my Fuel PRessure Desired always reads 58psi (used to go to 54psi which is where actual PSI hangs for awhile at WOT until 5500rpm when FP drops off so I know the FPCM is asking for 54psi, and I get all kinds of SCANNER FREEZES AFTER going WOT.

Starting to hate this software now all I do is spend my time debugging crap trying to figure out why things in scanner dont work, I used to love it.

Log of a WOT run with MSD BAP hose removed, Fuel Pump DC not working, Desired FP stuck at 58psi.. in the last the Fuel Pump DC was stuck at 99.7% but is a scanner issue
139b BAP WOTS TPS FREEZE PSI DROP SNIPPET.hpl

I haven't had any problem logging with the new beta - but yes the trans issue stinks. We will figure it out, That's racing and why we bought this car. We need to learn the platform and make mistakes (if we did something wrong) on our own cars.

Changing subject - I know, but did you tune the torque model so the trans wouldn't burn up? Did you lock the converter clutch while the car was rolling on the dyno, but while letting off the throttle to do your pulls? Sounds like pump or converter failure

I modified the custom TCM tune (lowered TUTD shift points) that came with the car that was supposedly done through the trans builder. As far as locking the converter keep in mind that we are doing 1/4 mile pulls so that's not an option. However, when we did the 4th gear pulls I did not use the scanner to lock the converter.

Here's a log of the last pull. FPCM data included. We did have wheel spin and hit the rev limit. Lot's of trans data to reference.102MM Qrt Pull.hpl