Where to start tuning

[00GTP]

Okay guys, maybe it's just me, but I just simply am lost as to where to start tuning this thing. I lookat Garys writeup and go "why do I want to change the VE table when it's only there in case of MAF failure". Should I go SD all the time? Maybe for the V8 guys, but not us. And I have a LS1 tb with the IAT wired in the maf. So tuning without the IAT objects with the spark table. Then I start to think that I have a wideband, so do I pay attention to the LTFT, narrowband or wideband readings. I think I got my lt's dialed pretty good, but looking at the wb at higher rpm's says I'm leaner that I would like. I've made scaling adjustments to the maf to get the ltft's close, but I feel like I'm missing something. Then what about wot tuning with the wideband. Where do I start? Damn, so many questions. So what about a write-up, start to finish, cruising to best power, for us WB users? Someone out there please take the time. And if there is one already, link me in the right direction.
I know this all sounds crazy, but I have to admit that I just don't know where to start with this wideband, what to look for or what adjustments to make and where.
The other writeups are good for stock to mildly modded V6's, but I'm looking for the most power with my setup. Right now my numbers don't look all that bad, but the car feels like it could go alot more. Sorry for being long winded, I'm just not satisfied that I know what I'm doing. So, once again, please someone get me a good "tuning for dummies with wideband looking for the most power but still being safe" manual

[00GTP]

Oh, and here's the 3rd scan since I got the wideband hooked up and scaled the maf a few times. No real WOT hits, I'll wait for some answers before I change anything for WOT.

[00GTP]

Sorry, here it is. Forgot to add it last post

[Russ K]

Your in closed loop, so changes to fuel will just be corrected by the stock O2 sensor when not in pe. Check some of my V6 posts for some tips. I've tuned several V6 cars using a FJO wideband.

Russ Kemp

[00GTP]

Your in closed loop, so changes to fuel will just be corrected by the stock O2 sensor when not in pe. Check some of my V6 posts for some tips. I've tuned several V6 cars using a FJO wideband.

Russ Kemp

So Russ, do you suggest setting the closed loop enable temp high to keep it in open loop? Then obviously what to change at that point? Start adjusting the spark, IFR, maf and etc.?? Alittle detail would be great about how you start the wideband tuning. And I will look into the other threads here

[slow6]

vcm controls , disable closed?

[00GTP]

vcm controls , disable closed?

Well, thats a good question. Yes, you can disable closed loop operation in the scanner controls, but if I'm tuning in open loop, most stay in open loop with a wideband after the tune is complete. That would mean that it should be changed in the editor so that you wouldn't need the scanner going all the time, right???
And once again, where to start with the readings I get with a wideband? What table first, where to go from what the scanner data reads?? These are the questions I have.

[slow6]

it wasnt really a question =)

[usd2sing]

subscribed....good topic!

[00GTP]

subscribed....good topic!

I dont think subscribing is gonna do a thing cuz nobody wants to help the 3800 crowd

[streetcar]

00GTP,

I've tried changing the open loop enable temp, but it had no effect on the cars for some reason . Using the VCM controls worked.

The first step is to work with the VE table - it's the basis off all the modifiers in the PCM when in open loop. You want to map it to 14.7:1 in each cell. Do not get into PE mode, use 93/94 octane!!! Unlike NA motors, a mistake with an engine under boost is fatal.

Fueling depends on spark timing - so copy over your high octane map, yadda yadda.

[00GTP]

streetcar:
Thanks for the reply man. But once again,isn't the VE table only there in case of MAF failure? From what I've read, thats the case. Which in turn won't affect the tune with a working MAF. And trust me, I know all about the effects of improper timing/tune.
Like I said I appreciate the response. I have a a modded car that should be able to run 12.5's, but a bad tune aint gonna get it there. And everyone said get a wideband, so I did. Now what??? WHERE TO START?
I tossed my old tune and scaling the maf should be one of the 1st things I would think. But I've read the threads here, and the V8 guys have a guide to base their tune off of, but not us.

[zq8bob]

The VE tables are not just for MAF failure. The VE tables are referenced for just about every airflow calc there is... The thing is, if the MAF is functioning, the VCM leans towards believeing the MAF's number for its calcs. Also, any situation where your in a Transient Throttle (i.e. not cruising at a steady state) the VE tables hold more weight in the calcs than the MAF sensor.

You should tune the VE tables before you scale the MAF.

[00GTP]

Thanks zq8bob. I will start the ve tuning process. Do you believe in SD mode first as stated in the V6 tuning guide? Should I follow "garys tuning guide"? Should I put it in open loop all the time, base my tuning off the ltft or the wideband? Or better yet, does the wideband and ltft agree with one another? If i adjust the VE due to ltft and the wideband says otherwise, what do I do?
I guess I don't understand if I tune by what the wideband says or the ltft. I know at WOT the ltft means nothing and I should tune off the wb, but what about other than wot?
You see my quandry here? I'm confused as to whether pay more attention to the ltft or the wideband. And if I go SD, my IAT is part of the MAF and I lose those readings. Does that make a difference since the IAT does have a pid for spark control.

[usd2sing]

I dont think subscribing is gonna do a thing cuz nobody wants to help the 3800 crowd

sorry for not getting back to the reply...the instant email thingy wasnt on..
LOL....i here ya bro...im in the same boat...i get so far then i get stuck....not feelin a whole lot of luv either...lol

i also used gary's guide...ve tables first then maf freq..but got stuck on the maf freq stuff. recal...everytime i made an adjustment things went south.
installed wb....used the correction error %. made the correction (multi by 1/2%)
things went south....so im running around with good lt's without maf, plugged maf back in...ended up adding 9.45% to maf freq across the board....so at idle and cruz im seeing 14.1-14.4 average..
but the correction error is still off.....

now i picked up some kr.....but cant find it...
pulled timing down to 2* in the area above 5k where it popped up...still there..

fattened up the fuel to low 11's...still there....UGH!

i feel your pain....i've been knee deep into this since memorial weekend..every night 3-4hrs.....still no bueno...
thats why posted the thread:
"how do u know when your done"...hahahaha im burnt...hahahaha

[zq8bob]

Could it be false knock your seeing? If your still reading knock after all that, then chances are it may be..

How much is it pulling?

[usd2sing]

me?.....i dont know if its false...but when ever i change the knock settings (base, max etc) it will pull that amount....

im in research mode.....and pretty stumped at the moment...everything is perfect until the 5k range. then kr kicks in....and i just set the afr to 11.0-11.4 in this range......just in case...
something funny...i can slowly increase throttle/speed past the 125 mark on the speedo. in 3rd gear or 4th and see nothing in kr.
but if i stab the throttle it appears...

im trying to figure out what the "hi/low load and the load threshholds" do....but the info is limited on our 6'ers....right now its set to .170g/cyl....

yes, im reaching.....hahahaha


hope im not jackin the thread...
peace

[dayday]

me?.....i dont know if its false...but when ever i change the knock settings (base, max etc) it will pull that amount....

im in research mode.....and pretty stumped at the moment...everything is perfect until the 5k range. then kr kicks in....and i just set the afr to 11.0-11.4 in this range......just in case...
something funny...i can slowly increase throttle/speed past the 125 mark on the speedo. in 3rd gear or 4th and see nothing in kr.
but if i stab the throttle it appears...

im trying to figure out what the "hi/low load and the load threshholds" do....but the info is limited on our 6'ers....right now its set to .170g/cyl....

yes, im reaching.....hahahaha


hope im not jackin the thread...
peace

Have you looked into Acc. Enrich and PEvsTime tables?

I'm with u all on this. I've had the tuner since they became available a couple of years ago and still understand very little about it. I doubt I even know half of what ways the scanner can be configured and used for. The table discriptions are nice but very little help to someone who has never tuned a car before.
FWIW... This community is so small and competitive that, unless your job is to work, build and tune these cars everyday you are just SOL on getting much tuning info. Even this software's 3800 competitor DHP locks their board so only DHP users can share tuning tips and ideas. There are a few companies that rely on this software and use it on a daily basis to tune 3800 vehicles however very little, if any, of that experience is passed on to the casual 3800 hobbyist. Rob Archer was the best at getting info out and explaining it to beginners, but he has been nearly non existant now that he has switched to the Cobalt SS.

[00GTP]

Dayday:
And I agree with that statement. The help files are just that, helpful if you know what that certain pid data does EXACTLY.
My problems are the same. The answers we get are sometimes very short as though we know what to do from there. I wouldn't be asking if I knew.
The guide for our V6 tuning is for those mildly modded cars. Everyone said get a wideband, but no one wants to "GUIDE" us thru the process. It is a different tuning beast than that of NB. All the "you're in closed loop, don't mess with the VE, do mess with the VE" is confusing. The LS guys have it made due to the quantity of tuners.
I need, hell WE v6 guys who have a wideband need, to start over from scratch with info on how to tune. The forum is for just that. No newbie could pick this tuner up and start tuning without alot of difficulty like I've ran into and I've had this for 2 years also.
C'mon GURUS, give us a hand. How about a wideband guide?????

[animuL]

If you have a wideband then you have everything you need probably to get that thing tuned perfectly. The first thing is, I assume you have an LS1 MAF, you need to make sure those MAF tables are in the PCM, and you need to make sure your IPWs are adjusted for your 42.5s. With this your PCM will be properly setup for the new components. That is going to be your starting point as far as fueling goes and it should get you pretty close. ANother thing most guys do is adjust PE down from the 12.4 or so that it is stock (probably the most lean you would ever want a supercharged engine to be), to about 11.6 (on the richer end of where you want a supercharged engine to be for best results). That all should give you a good starting point on tuning in your a/f ratios, you want them 14.7:1 for idle and cruising, and 11.6:1 for WOT. When tuning with a wideband it only takes a second to get the number too so at first dont do 0-100 mph runs or anything, just hit WOT for a second, then stop and see what ratio it hit then make adjustments if neccessary and try it again, when you see numbers yo ulike, then do WOT for a few seconds at a time, keep doing that til you are doing WOT all the way to redline. BTW another thing that will effect WOT a/f ratio is the AE, so instantly it might read really rich but within that second it should go back down to where it should be. If you need some help I'd be glad to offer it, I'm in Wichita.