2013 boss 302 mapped points changing during wot pull in op

[ADuff321]

Post up your last non-Roush version and then the final version. Some comparison of the cam functions may help add some clarity to the MP logic for you.

Here is an unmodified roush strategy and a stock 2013 boss 302 read strategy DZW2 Box code

In the roush strategy by comparison does not use mps 4-8 or 11.
Also the fuel economy mode is essentially always enabled as its table is maxed out at a load value of 5 as its max desired load to be enabled. Whereas it appears the boss cal will not have FE enabled after 0.83 or 0.84 desired load.
The Roush cal enables best driveability at 0.7 desired load whereas the boss cal has it completely disabled as its minimum desired load to enable is maxed out at 5.
Optimal Stability enable is same in both cals.
During a wot pull or high load and rpm demand the roush cal can pull distance from best driveability or fuel economy it looks like unless one trumps the other which i would love to know. but the BD distance table points distance 7 which correlates on the FE mapped point config to MP7 which is disabled in the cal. Maybe thats why it doesnt pull out of OP??? because its only other reference is disabled mps.?... or if it still can take from the FE Distnace table than it points to distance 5 which correlates to MP9 which is an enabled MP. However MP9's associated intake and exhaust angles are not very close to the cam angles im commanding in my OP cam angle tables... So perhaps yet again it wont use mp9 during wot because the commanded OP cam angles arent close enough to reference MP9?...??
Another Thing hard to grasp is that in the boss cal it should stop referencing FE Distances after .83 or .84 load so the only one that can potentially blend is the emission distances and mps which i tried to zero the whole distance table after mufies settings didnt work so that Emision distance was like the roush cal only keeping to zero distance which in both cals is MP0 which those cam angles are of course nowhere near the comanded OP angles but it still would pull out of OP.
Roush cal has snap to point 4-7 disabled but 10 is enabled whereas boss cal has 0-7 enabled and no MP10.

I feel like without a proper explanation/ training it would take one person weeks or months of dyno time to get a solid grasp on how these tables intermingle and how to properly manipulate them to do as you want. its a bit frustrating. Most coyotes up til this one that ive tuned dont jump out of the OP mapped point during wot. perhaps ill pull up some more of those tunes and sit and wrack my brain for more hours trying to draw correlations and make more assumptions that i can only hope are true and leading me in the right direction.

[murfie]

I graphed your MPs in 2D and plotted a ruff course the OP angles would take through it based on common RPMs. labeled/ orange points are the mapped points, labeled/ blue are the snap to points. As you can see between 4000 and 5250 your OP angles are closet to MP 8. That's why the weight shifts to it. MP8 is also a more retarded exhaust cam angle. It could either be trying to retarding the exhaust cam more or trying to advance the intake cam. From the log it looks like the intake was delayed from 4000 to 4650 from moving from -50. Moving weight to MP8 would have helped it achieve OP commanded angles. You can also see why at 7300 where MP9 got a little weight moving your exhaust cam again retarded.

You can plot the borderline tables around the outside of the MPs. Any cam positions in that area is what the base of HDFX comes from

Mapped points and distances.PNG

just look at where exhaust cam is being pulled up compared to where your intake cam is moving slower than OP table commands.

OP vs Log.PNG

Disabling MPs and modes may help in the logs, but I think you may have a slow/weak intake phaser. Better oil or playing with the FF tables cloud also help. How closely do the cams follow your OP tables with the other strategy copied over? Your exhaust cam should be flat as you commanded it.

[ADuff321]

the roush strategy does have differnt ff table values that i didnt copy over. also dont forget all i posted were 2 unmodified tunes except the 2 posted from the beginning of the thread which have modified cam angles that i was using as a base before i could finish vvt optimization for the power curve.

Perhaps i should copy over the the ff tables from roush however the car reacted great and vvt tuning went smoothly after the roush strategy mp configs, snap, distance, and enable tables were coppied over. for the record i did modify my op enable tables to values i like and didnt use the roush ones as this is an na car not a blower car. just used the roush ones on the other modes enable tables.

Would changing the ff tables make a difference?

[murfie]

The FF tables are based on degrees/second. MP 8 would increase the degrees per second as it was further from the OP commanded value. This would give it a different value duty cycle from the FF table. It all depends on how well the cams were following what you commanded with MP8 not enabled.

[Robert00MustangTurbo]

Bringing up this old thread because I ran into this issue with my Mustang

2012 Mustang M6

Ported Cobra Jet Manifold
D-Mark Cold Air Intake
FRPP Twin 65MM Throttle Body
BBK Cat Deletes
FRPP LU47 Injectors
E85


I have the same issue with the VCT Points changing on me on the dyno and the street. On the Dyno VCT Map Points Changed in the 1.04-1.05 air load areas and started skewing my spark pulling it out. Obviously it did not do this when the vehicle had the stock manifold on.

I used the Roush File ADuff321 used and it put the VCT points in check, However I feel that it was a shortcut to the issue and I would like to correct this issue if there is a correct way. Attached is the logs files before and after changes and Tune file.

Thank You

randomly pulling timing.hpl
Shop Car Cobra Jet Manifold.hpt
run 1 street.hpl
run 2 street.hpl

[blackbolt22]

Bringing up this old thread because I ran into this issue with my Mustang

2012 Mustang M6

Ported Cobra Jet Manifold
D-Mark Cold Air Intake
FRPP Twin 65MM Throttle Body
BBK Cat Deletes
FRPP LU47 Injectors
E85


I have the same issue with the VCT Points changing on me on the dyno and the street. On the Dyno VCT Map Points Changed in the 1.04-1.05 air load areas and started skewing my spark pulling it out. Obviously it did not do this when the vehicle had the stock manifold on.

I used the Roush File ADuff321 used and it put the VCT points in check, However I feel that it was a shortcut to the issue and I would like to correct this issue if there is a correct way. Attached is the logs files before and after changes and Tune file.

Thank You

randomly pulling timing.hpl
Shop Car Cobra Jet Manifold.hpt
run 1 street.hpl
run 2 street.hpl

With the HDFX system, other mapped points can certainly blend in at WOT. This is the nature of the beast. Read this thread carefully and also search through the forums. Once you understand how it works, it will be clear how to 'adjust' your tune to solve any VCT related issues.

[Robert00MustangTurbo]

With the HDFX system, other mapped points can certainly blend in at WOT. This is the nature of the beast. Read this thread carefully and also search through the forums. Once you understand how it works, it will be clear how to 'adjust' your tune to solve any VCT related issues.

This is definitely a system I will need to spend some dedicated days with on the dyno. The information in this thread is very helpful and makes sense, and definitely need to put it to use and learn the HDFX system.