4L60e issues,...bout to take a 50cal and give er the whole 9 yards

[Hutchinson]

Fast 4.7,..I just re-read my post,...simply inexcusable for me not to respond to you,.... big apologies for that bud. As self-punishment,...no cold beer for me tonight after working on truck today (well,...........maybe).
Yes Sir, after I verified the scanner commanded/actual was operating from the PCM to PCS (by reading what was commanded from "Controls and Special Functions" versus "actual" being recording on the scanner), I next checked resistance of the PCS,... and found it good at 4.7ohms (spec is 3-7ohms). I then unplugged the main wiring harness connector from the transmission and fired that dude up,..... Gauge didn't move at all,...stayed right at the same ~84#,...thus, I know its not a bad PCS,...it's gotta be a mechanical issue inside transmission.
When I drain/drop the pan today to swap the 1-2/2-3 shift solenoid connectors back around (as they were originally), and proceed with retesting it all per Bill@HPTuners 3.6 software update suggestion above,... I'll go ahead and pull the PCS/ all valves to inspect/cycle them manually to assure none are bound up or something. Is there anything else I should inspect while I'm there? I thought about also checking the boost valve to assure it not stuck/moves freely,.....kinda sucks because this is a new beefed up transmission with only 363 miles on it (it's a local build/not the FLT trans in my signature,...I'm waiting to assure all the bugs are gone from this one before I install that nice FLT trans,....if the local built trans last long enough).
Thanks Fast4.7, and the rest of you guys for reading and helping the next guy.

[Hutchinson]

Update - installed new 3.6 software update. Had pan off transmission, then swapped 1-2/2-3 shift solenoids connectors back around,...back the way they were originally - which - from the GM service manual wiring diagrams, and subsequent testing throughout this post, has proven to be correct.
Got under truck and put my hand on the solenoids, then used HPTuners Controls & Special Functions to cycle the 1-2 and 2-3 shift solenoids,...yeap, they're still backwards through the software,....thus the new software update didn't change anything.
One note - its funny that the Controls & Special Functions section lists it correctly as a 2-3 shift solenoid,...yet, the Channels PID list only has the 3-4 Shift Solenoid, no 2-3 is listed. Bill at Support is requesting Engineering look into why the software is backwards between 1-2/2-3 and why there's no 2-3 in the PID list (or if the 3-4 is truly showing the 2-3 solenoid operation - verifying the software path is correct/simply labeled 3-4). Bill at HPTSupports requested I repoll my vehicle to force my software to update the PID list (to see if the 2-3 shift Solenoid PID would show up),...unfortunately, it didn't appear. It still has the same 1-2/3-2/3-4 shift solenoid PIDs, no 2-3 showed up.

While pan was off, I pulled the PCS solenoid (you have to pull the 1-2 accumulator first, to get the PCS out),...the screens on the PCS were a bit dirty (clutch material) thus cleaned em' and put it all back together. I then used a small screwdriver to physically move the valves in the valve body (be ready for fluid to come out), and found none stuck. Thus, I'm befuddled as to why my line pressure gauge readings aren't fluctuating proportionately with TPS%/engine load, as well as, using Controls and Special Functions to cycle the PCS (force motor) amperage up/down.

Today, putting trans fluid back in and checking if my line pressure cycles on gauge (from cleaning the PCS screens) as I rev the engine in park,....then take the truck for another short run/scan to see if anything changed within the 1-2/2-3 shift Solenoid operation on/off. One thing I'm gonna try is manually cycle the trans up through all gears (with shift lever) and see if this changes on/off status in my scan.

I hope my issues help some other guy in the future, if/when we get it sorted.

[monte4ever]

In my scanner it doesn't show a 2-3 shift solenoid neither. I'm running the 4l80e thou and thought that was by design. Looks like I'm missing something in the software too.

[Hutchinson]

BILL at Support,....here's another one that has the same things I described on my ticket with you.

Yes Sir Monte4ever, you are right,...it's wrong in several areas. Now we have 4 people with the same issue,....thus it's not just me. Check out JasonB' video found on forum post "4L60e scan shift Solenoid issue",....wherein he shows what we have. Damn good work by JasonB.

I have a new 4L60e and 0411 PCM, thus, figured "I" had something wrong in my truck,....chased my ass for 3 weeks over this. It's both relief and aggravation rolled into one for me right now. I'll get over it,...just a little butt-hurt at the moment.

BILL at Support is getting this fixed for us.

[monte4ever]

My trans shifts very good during normal driving but now at WOT it don't shift like it use to from 2nd to 3rd before changing OS (12216125). As of now my main concern is TCC locking. The ECM is still commanding a repetitive lock and unlock scenario in 4th. After dropping the trans pan and doing some ohms checks and not finding anything I thought the ECM was bad. Well, I bought another one and it didn't fix the issue. I sent in a log and tune file of the issue but was given the same answer that you received before they decided to do the right thing. I hope you get your issue figured out and I also hope they recognize that their software is not perfect.

[Hutchinson]

What part of the WOT shift doesn't feel as good? What year/vehicle do you have/PCM are you using (0411 swap?)? I've not driven/ done any actual trans tuning yet,...can't drive the truck (still have a line pressure issue/deciphering). I'm trying to assure all the bugs are worked out of this new 363 mile trans before I install my new FLT 4L60e/start tuning.

I read somewhere about eliminating adaptive shift learning by zeroing out the shift times,.....I think I'll start out with 0.3 and work my way down from there. I read the shifts get softer over time due to this adaptive learning (wondering if this applies to WOT too). Is this what your experiencing? Softer shifts?

[Fast4.7]

Fast 4.7,..I just re-read my post,...simply inexcusable for me not to respond to you,.... big apologies for that bud. As self-punishment,...no cold beer for me tonight after working on truck today (well,...........maybe).
Yes Sir, after I verified the scanner commanded/actual was operating from the PCM to PCS (by reading what was commanded from "Controls and Special Functions" versus "actual" being recording on the scanner), I next checked resistance of the PCS,... and found it good at 4.7ohms (spec is 3-7ohms). I then unplugged the main wiring harness connector from the transmission and fired that dude up,..... Gauge didn't move at all,...stayed right at the same ~84#,...thus, I know its not a bad PCS,...it's gotta be a mechanical issue inside transmission.
When I drain/drop the pan today to swap the 1-2/2-3 shift solenoid connectors back around (as they were originally), and proceed with retesting it all per Bill@HPTuners 3.6 software update suggestion above,... I'll go ahead and pull the PCS/ all valves to inspect/cycle them manually to assure none are bound up or something. Is there anything else I should inspect while I'm there? I thought about also checking the boost valve to assure it not stuck/moves freely,.....kinda sucks because this is a new beefed up transmission with only 363 miles on it (it's a local build/not the FLT trans in my signature,...I'm waiting to assure all the bugs are gone from this one before I install that nice FLT trans,....if the local built trans last long enough).
Thanks Fast4.7, and the rest of you guys for reading and helping the next guy.

No worries on the lack of reply. Life happens.

As for your pressure problem. The 700r4/4L60E has several different pieces involved in building line pressure. There is a spring in the pump body itself as well as a pressure regulator spring and boost valve. The pressure regulator and boost valve can be reached from the pan. I would pull the snap ring and verify it is assembled correctly. Might also toss a .500" boost valve and a new elevated line pressure spring in there for good measure. They are cheap and your stock boost valve may be hanging up on you.

Pressure Regulator & Boost valve
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...07791710-2.jpg

Pump Slide Spring
http://www.oregonperformancetransmis...-77722-01K.jpg

[Fast4.7]

What part of the WOT shift doesn't feel as good? What year/vehicle do you have/PCM are you using (0411 swap?)? I've not driven/ done any actual trans tuning yet,...can't drive the truck (still have a line pressure issue/deciphering). I'm trying to assure all the bugs are worked out of this new 363 mile trans before I install my new FLT 4L60e/start tuning.

I read somewhere about eliminating adaptive shift learning by zeroing out the shift times,.....I think I'll start out with 0.3 and work my way down from there. I read the shifts get softer over time due to this adaptive learning (wondering if this applies to WOT too). Is this what your experiencing? Softer shifts?

I run about 0.250 on 1-2 and 2-3 in the 4L60Es I tune and run 0.00 (STOCK) on the 3-4 shift. I also run 40% torque reduction on ALL shifts, flat from the lowest torque value to the highest. Cutting some input torque actually makes the transmission complete the shift more quickly.

[monte4ever]

What part of the WOT shift doesn't feel as good? What year/vehicle do you have/PCM are you using (0411 swap?)? I've not driven/ done any actual trans tuning yet,...can't drive the truck (still have a line pressure issue/deciphering). I'm trying to assure all the bugs are worked out of this new 363 mile trans before I install my new FLT 4L60e/start tuning.

I read somewhere about eliminating adaptive shift learning by zeroing out the shift times,.....I think I'll start out with 0.3 and work my way down from there. I read the shifts get softer over time due to this adaptive learning (wondering if this applies to WOT too). Is this what your experiencing? Softer shifts?

I doesn't shift (at least it didn't last time I floored it). Before the OS switch it shifted right a 6400-6500rpm where I wanted it. I'm using the 411 ECM with 12216125 OS from a 2002 Flex fuel Tahoe. I then performed a 4l80e Segment swap twice. The first was from a 2002 Avalanche which didn't allow the trans to down shift back to 1st. It was basically stuck in 2nd. The current 4l80e file I got from support and it fixed the shifting problem but left me with the current TC lockup issues. I never had these issues before the OS and Segment Swap switch. In my logs the trans is doing exactly what the ECM is asking even thou the tune is setup to do the opposite. One example is the ECM will command it to lock in 3rd but the tune is set to not lock in 3rd at all.

[Fast4.7]

My brothers 1999 Tahoe has a G80 3.42 gear rear and P305/50R20s on the back. We put a Transgo seperator plate and shift kit in. Sized everything for the High performance/HD use. Added a Vette servo and then tuned the shift times and tq management like I mentioned. Ended up remapping the line pressure slightly with mapping from the Tow/Haul table of a newer Express van. On a WOT 1-2 shift at 5,500 rpm the little 300 hp 305 barks those 20" tires. It shifts firm enough he actually backs off of it most of the time. Some hard part will break one day, I am sure of it but it has held up for a couple of years now and about 30K miles.

[Hutchinson]

No worries on the lack of reply. Life happens.

As for your pressure problem. The 700r4/4L60E has several different pieces involved in building line pressure. There is a spring in the pump body itself as well as a pressure regulator spring and boost valve. The pressure regulator and boost valve can be reached from the pan. I would pull the snap ring and verify it is assembled correctly. Might also toss a .500" boost valve and a new elevated line pressure spring in there for good measure. They are cheap and your stock boost valve may be hanging up on you.

Pressure Regulator & Boost valve
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...07791710-2.jpg

Pump Slide Spring
http://www.oregonperformancetransmis...-77722-01K.jpg

Thanks Fast4.7 - Dumb question but, if my pressure increases when I go from Park to Reverse (I have ~84# in P/all forward gears, but in Reverse, it increase to ~115#),...would that say my boost valve is installed correctly/not stuck? I'm thinking it doesn't because it's a different fluid circuit (internally feeding boost valve). Also, if I pull the boost valve, will a lot of trans fluid come roaring out (basically most of the trans fluid trapped in the upper end of trans)?

Thanks for the links/pics, they're a big help. Yes Sir, it has a new Sonnax boost valve in it,...I think it's a .490 from a year old memory,... but,....don't quote me on the size.

I cycled all the valves in the valve body (that I could) with a small screwdriver,...but, admittedly, I didn't pull the snap ring/boost valve to check correct install because it was late in the day/beer-thirty/was tired of looking at trans fluid for the day and didn't want to deal with a lot of fluid roaring out. I've reinstalled pan, but, haven't replaced the fluid yet,.....so I can go back out and easily drop the pan again/pull that boost valve,.....if a lot of fluid isn't gonna come roaring out.

I'm almost tempted to say to heck with trying to figure out what's wrong with the pressure control in this 363 mile trans,.... and go forward with installing the new FLT Level 5 trans. I was trying to assure everything was ok before installing new trans but, it's been steadily eating days on my schedule.

The only grey spot in my mind (that is keeping me from installing the new trans) is the VCM Scanner PCS "Commanded" versus "Actual" readings,....meaning, I understand the "Commanded",....but, the "Actual" is still greyed a bit - does this measurement truly represent a current measurement coming back from the PCS itself? I've ohm measured the PCS, it's good,...and verified the amperage "commanded" and "actual" go up and down in parallel/unison (per scanner while driving,...and using Controls and Special Functions to command it - both with no pressure increases on gauge),....could we say, after seeing these things, that it is without doubt a mechanical issue inside trans not allowing pressure to fluctuate proportionately to engine torque/TPS%?

Sure would be cool if I could definitively assure it was something mechanical inside trans,....if so, I would jump-on swapping trans and driving in a couple days. Just know my dumb luck to this point, thus reason I haven't proceeded, and continually trying to track down the reason.

Thanks for the help Fast4.7

[Hutchinson]

I doesn't shift (at least it didn't last time I floored it). Before the OS switch it shifted right a 6400-6500rpm where I wanted it. I'm using the 411 ECM with 12216125 OS from a 2002 Flex fuel Tahoe. I then performed a 4l80e Segment swap twice. The first was from a 2002 Avalanche which didn't allow the trans to down shift back to 1st. It was basically stuck in 2nd. The current 4l80e file I got from support and it fixed the shifting problem but left me with the current TC lockup issues. I never had these issues before the OS and Segment Swap switch. In my logs the trans is doing exactly what the ECM is asking even thou the tune is setup to do the opposite. One example is the ECM will command it to lock in 3rd but the tune is set to not lock in 3rd at all.

Monte4ever, I looked at my info on a 4L60e and attached a few pics for you. Admittedly, I'm not 100% sure if the 4L80e works the exact same in respect of TCC,...but, it shouldn't be that far off??? According to 4L60e operation, one thing I didn't know (till I started looking into your mentioned TCC lock issue) was the TCC will lock in 3rd under high speeds with heavy throttle conditions,....as well as if trans temp is above 275 degrees (found in third paragraph of 1st pic),.....not sure if any of these pics will help bud,..but, figured I'd simply try to help.

IMG_0346.PNGIMG_0347.PNGIMG_0348.PNGIMG_0349.PNGIMG_0350.PNG

[Hutchinson]

I run about 0.250 on 1-2 and 2-3 in the 4L60Es I tune and run 0.00 (STOCK) on the 3-4 shift. I also run 40% torque reduction on ALL shifts, flat from the lowest torque value to the highest. Cutting some input torque actually makes the transmission complete the shift more quickly.

Fast4.7, Yes Sir, I'll be doing same as what you did,,...I'll start at 0.3 and work my way down in 1-2/2-3 and keep zero on 3-4. I reduced my torque management 50% across the board,....I had it set to zero,...but,...aired on the side of caution and went 50%.

Thanks Fast4.7

[monte4ever]

Monte4ever, I looked at my info on a 4L60e and attached a few pics for you. Admittedly, I'm not 100% sure if the 4L80e works the exact same in respect of TCC,...but, it shouldn't be that far off??? According to 4L60e operation, one thing I didn't know (till I started looking into your mentioned TCC lock issue) was the TCC will lock in 3rd under high speeds with heavy throttle conditions,....as well as if trans temp is above 275 degrees (found in third paragraph of 1st pic),.....not sure if any of these pics will help bud,..but, figured I'd simply try to help.

IMG_0346.PNGIMG_0347.PNGIMG_0348.PNGIMG_0349.PNGIMG_0350.PNG

Trans temp was around 150-160* which is normal. Trans will lock in third with the selector in D3 only. Before it never locked in third. With the selector in D4 it shifts normal but will not stay locked once I hit the targeted lockup speed. My scans show that this is all being commanded by the ECM. I found another 4l80e file to try. Ima Segment Swap this 4l80e segment into my current file and see what happens.

[Hutchinson]

Trans temp was around 150-160* which is normal. Trans will lock in third with the selector in D3 only. Before it never locked in third. With the selector in D4 it shifts normal but will not stay locked once I hit the targeted lockup speed. My scans show that this is all being commanded by the ECM. I found another 4l80e file to try. Ima Segment Swap this 4l80e segment into my current file and see what happens.

Yes Sir, that temp is good,...my 4L60e runs same. I have a temp probe drilled/tapped in the deep aluminum pan,...with gauge mounted on pillar (3 gauges). I haven't compared it to the internal temp sensor yet (to see how accurate). Ideally, I'd like to place the temp probe in the "hot line out" headed towards the external oil cooler,... but, haven't found a -6AN "T" that'll work right yet.

Man, your TCC lock issue is a tough one,....please let us know how it gets fixed,....it'll help others later down the road. Gotta admit bud, I've thought a lot about your TCC, yet come up with little to no use. Sorry man,...we need one of our guru's on here to look into this one for you.

Wishing you well man,....

[Hutchinson]

HPTuners Support updated us on the original issues last night - which I copied and pasted here to let all know -
The newest software available has the 3-4 solenoid renamed to 2-3 in the scanner. We will be looking into the 1-2/2-3 reversal issue you pointed out early next week.

Thanks HPTuners Support/Bill.

[Hutchinson]

HPTuners Support updated to address remaining issues. I received the following email yesterday;

We apologize for the inconvenience. Please download the latest 3.7 Beta update available for download on your customer page (www.hptuners.com/customers). The bi-directional controls in VCM Scanner should now operate the proper solenoids and the 3-4 solenoid pid has been renamed to 2-3.

Today, I'll drop the transmission pan again and test the 1-2/2-3 shift solenoid on/off operation from Controls and Special Functions and report findings back to Support.

Thanks Bill and all you other guys at HPTuners Support.

[Hutchinson]

Fast4.7 - just pulled the whole boost valve assembly, and from what I could see, it was all installed correctly/nothing stuck/bound up.

Before I pulled the Jesus ring, I used a screwdriver and pushed up on the boost sleeve,...it moved up/down easily about 1/8-3/16".
Once pulled out, the boost valve slides easily in the boost sleeve with no play,....it's a new Sonnax boost setup (only had a slight sticking at the very end, when you pull the valve all the way out of the sleeve). It only had a couple of microscopic metal flakes (could have been the orange spring paint chips) in the sleeve when I pulled the valve out. The pressure regulator valve looked like it was fully seated up in there. And both springs looked brand new (as they should) with orange paint still on them.

I brake cleaned all the parts, then smeared some trans fluid on it all/reassembled/reinstalled boost assembly back up in pump. Fairly easy process to remove/reinstall. Very little, if only a few drops of trans fluid came out when I pulled the boost valve assembly. I got more fluid draining from the PCS valvebody housing, than I did the boost valve. Thus tells me it's unlikely the fluid flow (from PCS up to boost valve) is clogged,......

My only thought is the local builder may not have measured my original boost valve sleeve,.....they come in two different sizes and aren't interchangeable - they measure roughly ~1.8 and ~1.9 (IIRC). Maybe he put the wrong one in. We can't rely on the year model of the trans,....both 1.8 and 1.9 came in several same year models,...thus, you must measure your existing boost sleeve and get the exact same one (from what I understand).

After testing the new beta HPTuners Support sent me (to correct Controls and Special Functions 1-2/2-3 on/off cycling),...I'll put it all back together, crank er up and see if anything in the pressure system changed (hopeful, but doubt it,....because I have yet to find anything wrong).

Round and round we go,.....chase that tail SON!!! Like trying to use your left hand to reach around your right elbow and touch your own ass,.......

[Hutchinson]

Bill @Support - please look at ticket# 87061 - I wrote you a question about downloading that beta update. I'm out in my driveway right now, with pan off trans and trying to do the testing. Man, it's just stupid hot and muggy it is down here in Florida right now,....especially out in my driveway at 3-4 in the afternoon,....ain't no shade. Driveway concrete slab burns your soft parts,....

[Hutchinson]

Bill@Support sent me the changes in beta format and I downloaded to my laptop. I had the pan off/retested and,.... SUCCESS!!!

When I go into Controls and Special Functions (beta version) and click 1-2/2-3 on/off, it cycles the correct shift solenoid on/off (as verified by my hand on the physical solenoids themselves).
And, it's correct on the Scanner as well (as this shouldn't change, but, I checked for assurance). Thus, when I drive the truck tomorrow, it should correctly show 1-2/2-3 shift Solenoid on/off per current gear, as well.

And found the old "Shift Solenoid 3-4" PID has been changed to 2-3,....no more future questions.

Bill said they probably wouldn't update the public software till version 3.8 coming out in a few months.

Thanks again Bill.