Tuner lock ever to return? Any other options available to protect your work?

[Justinjor]

Are there any plans to once again allow shops/tuners to protect their intellectual property by locking our tunes? I was using the ngauge exclusively to help keep my information protected but even now, anyone with an MPVI can read an HPTuners tuned car and extract the file. Hell, even the export files created by VCM suite that are supposed to be encrypted are opened just the same as a regular tune file. There are absolutely no protections for a Ford tuner.

As someone who has had files stolen here locally, to say its frustrating is an understatement.

Are there any other options for a shop who uses HPTuners as their go-to tuning software to protect themselves?

[Gerrot]

Looking forward to hearing an answer to this.

[Keith@HPTuners]

We need to come up with a more secure method.

A method where we only lock out our own customers from the vehicle isn't realistic for us. Then, our customers will just purchase our competitors products to read out the tune.

It's not an easy problem to solve, but one we'd like to in the future, if possible.

[Justinjor]

We need to come up with a more secure method.

A method where we only lock out our own customers from the vehicle isn't realistic for us. Then, our customers will just purchase our competitors products to read out the tune.

It's not an easy problem to solve, but one we'd like to in the future, if possible.

What other option is there to read out the file? I wasn't aware of something else that exists in the market to do such a thing.

My issue is that it's essentially a one way street right now. Those who choose to tune with SCT can lock the files such that someone who tunes with HPT can't read them (perfectly fine, I have no problem with that) but I cannot do the same. I am essentially punished for choosing to tune with HPT over SCT and am vulnerable to any SCT tuner with an mpvi in their bookbag who wants to read out my work. I have absolutely 0 protection.

If I want to protect my work, right now, I am ultimately forced to tune with SCT until HPT comes up with a solution. I'm sure I'm not the only concerned shop who uses HPT as their primary tuning tool.

[Eric@HPTuners]

Outside of the australian market, I have seen no such lock from SCT. Can you provide an example?

[sillycon]

We need to come up with a more secure method.

A method where we only lock out our own customers from the vehicle isn't realistic for us. Then, our customers will just purchase our competitors products to read out the tune.

It's not an easy problem to solve, but one we'd like to in the future, if possible.

Not that I'm an advocate for locking (personally, I think it's a feature-add/bonus that HPT no longer supports locking) but it could be accomplished by using custom OS's with remapped table locations (though I'd imagine y'all have already considered this). By scrambling the locations in memory, only HPT will know how to interpret the ROM/BIN. From there you can use the standard/old-school HPT lock mechanism.

This, of course, completely sucks for the car owner. Tuners move away, quit tuning, pass away, etc. Hardware fails, and cars get sold to new owners, etc. Heck, should the owner and tuner suffer a difference of opinion, all the money the owner spent is now wasted because the tuner locked the ECM/PCM.

[Keith@HPTuners]

That's a ton of engineering resources for a feature we give away for free.

[10SecSleeper]

Any thing they do, can be reversed by someone with motivation, much like the HPT software itself.

Once your work is out there, it's out there. Simple as that.

[Justinjor]

Any thing they do, can be reversed by someone with motivation, much like the HPT software itself.

Once your work is out there, it's out there. Simple as that.

Of course, where there's a will, there's a way, but the option to make it at least somewhat challenging would be greatly appreciated.

[Justinjor]

Outside of the australian market, I have seen no such lock from SCT. Can you provide an example?

Maybe I'm calling it the wrong thing. Normally it isn't a big deal but lately I've had a handful of customers come in wanting a dyno tune to replace their email tune but they either lost their x3/4 or left it at home. I figure ok, no problem, I'll just read the file, compare/replace with stock file from repository and start from there, but instead, the file reads out either a jumbled mess that is useless, or it gives an error. Either checksum or definition related. Come to find out after talking with one of the tuners, he said he locks his files to protect his work.

I only want the same option for myself and any other shops who tune primarily with HPT.

Now I include a notice with all dyno tuning appointments regarding 'if you're currently tuned with an SCT programmer, make sure you bring it so we're not wasting both of our time'.

[mbray01]

lund tunes are all locked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, or at least every single one ive seen. Try to log one, it basically allows you to read rpm, and vss, pretty much nothing else, i suspect they move things in the binary to achieve this. These are all on the x4

[mbray01]

I have always found irony in being able to unlock hpt locks with sct, however hpt will not unlock sct. There are many methods of unlocking out there, and most are cheap to do, just time consuming. I have a dedicated computer, and bench harnesses that I use for unlocking now, and can take 10+ hours going over night to unlock some locks. At this point, a new controller is becoming a cost effective option

[sillycon]

That's a ton of engineering resources for a feature we give away for free.

No disagreement! If I were running your feature/bug backlog, it definitely wouldn't be making it to the top of the list anytime soon. There are SO many other things to work on which are much better value-adds (new platforms, new modules, UI enhancements, etc).

[Montecarlodrag]

Nothing is really free. I have spent thousands of dls in credits.
If cost is an issue, there are lots of people willing to pay for the feature. You just added the User Defined Parameter feature for $169. You can sell the feature for a similar price if you must, it's something other software has and we don't, it's as simple as that.

[Tapi]

To the topic: If there would be a code or such to prevent certain value change in the tune, it would meet official requirements here in Finland. We need speed limiting devices for certain cars to meet the law and officials say that modifying the tune would be enough only if you can do it with a code which is not known in public.

[* _ *]

Might be possible to have HPT Editor to prompt the person/tuner with the option to either A: Continue with read/write (using whatever needed credits) to default the module to stock parameters or B: Abort read/write and to open scanner for viewing live activity/data.

By selecting option "A", it would erase the modified tune along with the lock enabling the end user to do what they wish.

[arcangel107]

if hp did this they would loss alot of money and people would stop buying there product there is no way you will ever be able to lock a tune bc someone will hack it or make a device to go around the lock beside that other reason is poeple wount use hp anymore bc if they could lock it and wanted it tuned by someone better or something these so called shops would charge people to unlock after they already hit them for 500 or so for tuning it in the first place.. its simple if someone wants it they will get it especially if it involves anything with computers........ i understand people don't like there tune running around town bye another tuner or wanna be tuner but however locking would cause more problems then what its worth you would also loss clients cars bc of it.... i just bite my tongue and go on most people that still my tunes change things in them and blow or hurt the motor or trans and it ends up in my shop at the end of the day......

[mbray01]

Might be possible to have HPT Editor to prompt the person/tuner with the option to either A: Continue with read/write (using whatever needed credits) to default the module to stock parameters or B: Abort read/write and to open scanner for viewing live activity/data.

By selecting option "A", it would erase the modified tune along with the lock enabling the end user to do what they wish.

the locking process involves changing the seed/key combination. Even to overwrite the old file, the mpvi and the ecm have to shake hands, meaning it needs the seed/key combination.

[* _ *]

the locking process involves changing the seed/key combination. Even to overwrite the old file, the mpvi and the ecm have to shake hands, meaning it needs the seed/key combination.

by it closing editor based on choosing option "B", it would open scanner, which is standardized OBD2 software with some tweaks contingent of y/m/m and such.

Option "A" will need to prompt for giving the option to entering the "unlocking" code while consuming the necessary credits (to handshake) to link the car's module to the newly connected HPT interface - or - secondary option within "A" to basically /format:c the car's module and loading on the basic OEM file yet now leaving the module unlocked for you to use HPT (after issuing the designated credited needed) .

No one loses there "tune" , no one has to buy a new vehicle computer and deal with the hassles, and HPT llc gains a new client and sells more credits securely.

[Blue Bee]

Is there any more info on this subject? At the time I didn't know it would be such a big deal, but a '16 Camaro I did with 8-speed trans, whipple made just over 600, (J1349) corrected which is still less than a dynojet and I know for a fact the owner took the car to another shop for drag tire install and they took/stole the tune out of it because them with others have said 550+ was not possible on the stock fuel system. I spent a week on the dyno with that car PCM/TCM tuning it. https://youtu.be/BGzLWZjp_OY

Just recently I tuned an 8-speed Dodge trans for a guy, I should have known something was up when he didn't want me to tune PCM, which I told him trans tune would not work entirely as I tune for without changing some stuff in PCM. I did the TCM tune changes and he was trying to beat around the bush about what I changed in the PCM, turns out, he was a friend of another local shop, he literally drove the car straight there and they pulled the tune. From day one (of 8-speed tuning), with my Dodge knowledge I have logged a shit ton hours from my personal car and put together a badass 8-speed tune for my Dodge customers, and these fools just it for free. It's annoying.