2017 2ss Manual Camaro, lag between shifts? 6spd

[ddtech]

I just tuned a FBO 6th gen last night, and i'm still kindof besides myself at how the car acts between shifts. Best way to describe this is that, when completing the shift the car takes a split second before going again.

this is a 6spd car, it feels like TQ MGT is waiting for the clutch to fully engage if thats the best way to describe it. Say going from 1 > 2 the car will cut throttle a split second before going back to 100%. Runs good other then that, the customer states this had done this a tad before just trying to see if this is a normal thing, and/or something i can tune out.

[SultanHassanMasTuning]

yes there is an issue with the newer gen camaros that can not be tuned completely, usually euro models for 2016+ under a certain speed limit the throttle is laggy

[ddtech]

yes there is an issue with the newer gen camaros that can not be tuned completely, usually euro models for 2016+ under a certain speed limit the throttle is laggy

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I spoke with GMTAC today and they said some cars are worst then others but it is normal operation. As more power is made, its more predominate. I was just wondering if its something i did, i can post Calibration but i just find it odd the throttle will not go back to 100% after shift is completed for that split second, seems really annoying.

[Kyle_Customizer]

It may not be in the calibration. I have seen a few manuals do this. What I have learned is that there is a valve in line from the clutch master that seems to damper a quick shift. Possibly to protect the clutch, I am not sure. I know centerforce was working on a delete for that valve for one of their customers that drag races alot. If nothing jumps out in the logs, I would look into this.

[Higgs Boson]

It may not be in the calibration. I have seen a few manuals do this. What I have learned is that there is a valve in line from the clutch master that seems to damper a quick shift. Possibly to protect the clutch, I am not sure. I know centerforce was working on a delete for that valve for one of their customers that drag races alot. If nothing jumps out in the logs, I would look into this.

I notice this on my 2017 Z06 as well, and it's interesting you mention a valve in the clutch line, I had an EVO 8 back in 2003 and we all had to remove the valves that caused a slow uneven release......Now that you bring it up, it feels very similar! It was a little pill in the line that restricted flow. I wonder if it is that simple on these cars also.

[Kyle_Customizer]

Here is a pic of what it looks like in a 2016 Camaro. I have not looked for one in a Corvette yet, but I wouldn't put it past GM to have put one in there. Let me know if you find one Higgs Boson.

2016 Camaro clutch damper 1.jpg

2016 Camaro clutch damper 2.jpg

[409Jake]

Been noticing this on 6th gens as well... What I've noticed is the timing is pulled out after each shift for approx 1 second(ish) too. It's there on stock cars, but more noticeable on cars with more mods done to them.

Here's what the timing looks like after each shift (retarded -then flat as commanded)...tm-shifts2.JPG

It almost feels like some kind of clutch protection TM, or similar. I asked HpT if we might be missing any tables related to this, but was told that everything was mapped out.

Not sure if this is what you might be feeling too...

[Higgs Boson]

Been noticing this on 6th gens as well... What I've noticed is the timing is pulled out after each shift for approx 1 second(ish) too. It's there on stock cars, but more noticeable on cars with more mods done to them.

Here's what the timing looks like after each shift (retarded -then flat as commanded)...tm-shifts2.JPG

It almost feels like some kind of clutch protection TM, or similar. I asked HpT if we might be missing any tables related to this, but was told that everything was mapped out.

Not sure if this is what you might be feeling too...

Try disabling Spark Smoothing and see what that log looks like.

[Higgs Boson]

Here is a pic of what it looks like in a 2016 Camaro. I have not looked for one in a Corvette yet, but I wouldn't put it past GM to have put one in there. Let me know if you find one Higgs Boson.

Now that I know what to look for, thanks for posting.

[409Jake]

Try disabling Spark Smoothing and see what that log looks like.

Disabling the smoothing, pushing around the TQ tables, Driver Demand, Fast Tq Exit, CFCO, appereared to not make a difference at all to that little dip.

[ddtech]

I spent the better part of 2 hours testing.. if you raise the driver demand too much the throttle is TOO touchy, this isn't like a regular car as i've tuned a few 6th gen 8spds, and the driver demand tables are 100% different..

I will try to share a log, BUT, when you complete the shift, and you're back on the GAS 100%, there is a hesitation before the veh returns back to 100%, it is likea hidden torque mgt issue but i have no idea.

As i stated before, i spoke to a GMENG about this and was told this is normal.. but i would think you would want the car to be able to go full power after clutch is released.. this seems silly.

[ddtech]

Been noticing this on 6th gens as well... What I've noticed is the timing is pulled out after each shift for approx 1 second(ish) too. It's there on stock cars, but more noticeable on cars with more mods done to them.

Here's what the timing looks like after each shift (retarded -then flat as commanded)...tm-shifts2.JPG

It almost feels like some kind of clutch protection TM, or similar. I asked HpT if we might be missing any tables related to this, but was told that everything was mapped out.

Not sure if this is what you might be feeling too...

That is EXACTLY how my logs look. ALMOST IDENTICAL. Except i'm trying to go back WOT after completing the shift.

[GENVISS]

Has there been any progress on this? Mine does the exact same thing. Even under no lift shift conditions....and I get that it pulls timing to accomplish that task.

I even bumped the DD table a bit, but that resulted in the throttle trying to run away (I went too much in the lower airmass areas)

But after a full two days at the track and 15+ runs, I still haven't found what will help the car leave hard and run its best.

On a side note, Tick's braided clutch line will replace that valve as well. It's a pain to install with the trans in the car and on jack stands, but it is do-able.

[Higgs Boson]

Big improvement disabling CFCO
also have disabled Spark Smoothing

[jmc2010]

Doesn't Torque Reduction (Trans<Torque Management<Torque Reduction) Pull timing during shifts? Anyone tried setting Upshift / CT Downshift / Power Downshift / Garage Shift all to disable?

[Higgs Boson]

Doesn't Torque Reduction (Trans<Torque Management<Torque Reduction) Pull timing during shifts? Anyone tried setting Upshift / CT Downshift / Power Downshift / Garage Shift all to disable?

Those are Auto trans TM items, this is about a stick shift.

You don't want to disable TM in the auto, IMO. You want to leave all of it on and tune it rather than kill it.

[jmc2010]

Those are Auto trans TM items, this is about a stick shift.

I skimmed right over the manual tranny part.

[Earwax]

Just an FYI, GM has used clutch restrictions since the LT-1,4 in the 90`s.
It is to protect the clutch/driveline from abuse.
They also lower the warranty repairs,which is $$$$.

[travislambert]

I had something similar happen to me once. In my case I had reduced the rev limiter in Neutral under
Fuel -> Cutoff, DFCO ->Cutoff RPM vs. Gear -> Normal

I was thinking there would be no need to rev up to redline in neutral, without thinking about the fact that the car considers the car as being in Neutral between shifts.

[80sMetalDude]

This is happening to me. Recently had Whipple put on my 17 1LE. 1st to 2nd is such a ruined experience with this 1 second pause. It makes ya look like an idiot that cannot drive. So much power and lose a full second. What's the point a stock stang could make up the gap in that lag time and beat me. Such a downer moment. Took a friend out he's like "WTF happened there?"... That's the way it is every time dude. "that aint right at all".... Well I guess GM wants it to be like that. Found all kinds of threads about the GenV failures and I wonder if they got over zealous with this restrictor valve.

This isnt a daily so I'm hoping it can be figured out.

This thread opened my eyes on how to search for this and there are all kinds of youtube regarding this for Challengers/Hellcats (Clutch Delay Valve delete etc) and not a single hit for any GM I see out there. Why?