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Thread: BP gas as bad as claimed?

  1. #1
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    BP gas as bad as claimed?

    I have a moderately tuned turbo 2.0, and have it running slightly aggressive in ignition and cam timing. I run nothing less than 93 octane and always use Shell or Sunoco.

    Last weekend I found myself in a location with only a BP nearby while doing some spirited back road driving. I filled up with their 93 and drove on. Within 10 miles I heard audible knock when running at high RPM and once I plugged in the scanner, I was seeing as much as 5 degrees KR where I had previously seen zero.

    Its not the first time I've had a bad BP experience from multiple stations. What are your preferred brands and any opinions on BP?

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    I ran BP 93 for years when I had my supercharged grand prix, never had problems like that. I did stop buying from them because they started making people pay a premium just because they had the highest grade of fuel. Could get 92 and 91 octane for 10-15 cents less a gallon and 92 performed the same as 93 to me.
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    Get an ethanol tester and see what the E content is. It may simply be that your tune was done with E15 and that station had E0. Ethanol is good at keeping detonation at bay so the difference between E15 and E5 or such can be pretty drastic on a "ragged edge" (for "pump gas") sort of tune. I've seen 5-10% swings in my fuel trims due to getting gas from station A vs station B.
    2007 Z06 (E38 ECM), stock LS7 short block, .030" milled/ported heads, PLX SM-AFR, MPVI Pro

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    Thanks @sillycon, that's a great suggestion. I always had the belief that only ethanol content of over 30% has any material impact on detonation prevention and 10% versus 0% would not be noticeable. But now that you mention it, I don't recall seeing the "contains ethanol" sticker on the BP pump like i normally see on the Shell pump.

  5. #5
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    If that holds true to Shell using E and BP not or much less, then your tune using Shell should have a higher injector duty cycle than if you were to use BP. Does the vehicle foul or huff black when you use BP fuel?

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    I did not notice a difference in soot or smoke between the two blends, but I'll admit I wasn't focused on it.

    To satisfy my OCD, i ordered an ethanol tester. I'll report back on my findings.

    On a related note, anyone have experiences with any of the canned octane boosters? I've read some articles after googling, but still not sure I have empirical data to evaluate.

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    Only good octane boosters I've used are Lucas which is OK or VP Racing Fuel Booster - I've seen 50hp gains from that stuff on the dyno - very impressed with it, but it does have the ability to damage O2's and fuel system components...
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

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  8. #8
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    Torco works pretty good.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    Only good octane boosters I've used are Lucas which is OK or VP Racing Fuel Booster - I've seen 50hp gains from that stuff on the dyno - very impressed with it, but it does have the ability to damage O2's and fuel system components...
    MSDS for the VP booster: http://www.vpracing.com.au/sites/def...onal%20SDS.pdf

    Interesting read. Would have figured they'd be more reliant on MTBE or perhaps TEL (then again, TEL would have to be labelled for off-road only) but apparently not.
    Last edited by sillycon; 06-30-2017 at 04:56 PM.
    2007 Z06 (E38 ECM), stock LS7 short block, .030" milled/ported heads, PLX SM-AFR, MPVI Pro

  10. #10
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    I ran some tests to satisfy my own curiosity.
    I happen to have four gas jugs so I bought gas from 4 stations including the BP that caused me the above noted issues. Results are below

    Sunoco 93: 3% ethanol
    Shell 93: 6% ethanol
    BP 93: 5% ethanol
    Speedway 93: 5% ethanol

    So it appears that the experience I had (knock) was not due to BP's lower ethanol content compared to my normal gas. I have to draw the conclusion that the BP gas is actually lower octane than advertised.

    One other observation- while mixing the water and fuel for the tests, the Sunoco gas dissipated the bubbles almost instantly whereas the Speedway gas took 3 or more minutes for bubbles to dissipate. To me, this hints at the amount of detergents in the fuel. Sunoco = high detergents, Speedway = low, the other two brands somewhere in between.

  11. #11
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    Personally, I'd take BP gas over Sunoco any day. BP uses TopTier gas, so you know that it has a high amount of detergents. With Sunoco or any other non-TopTier, you never know what you're getting. Unfortunately, all that is around my house is Sunoco, so I sometimes have to use them, but I prefer BP, Exxon or Mobile over Sunoco any day.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dekes1 View Post
    I ran some tests to satisfy my own curiosity.
    I happen to have four gas jugs so I bought gas from 4 stations including the BP that caused me the above noted issues. Results are below

    Sunoco 93: 3% ethanol
    Shell 93: 6% ethanol
    BP 93: 5% ethanol
    Speedway 93: 5% ethanol

    So it appears that the experience I had (knock) was not due to BP's lower ethanol content compared to my normal gas. I have to draw the conclusion that the BP gas is actually lower octane than advertised.

    One other observation- while mixing the water and fuel for the tests, the Sunoco gas dissipated the bubbles almost instantly whereas the Speedway gas took 3 or more minutes for bubbles to dissipate. To me, this hints at the amount of detergents in the fuel. Sunoco = high detergents, Speedway = low, the other two brands somewhere in between.
    What part of the country are you in? That is lower ethanol than I was expecting for regular pump gas. Most places around me have a sticker that says "maximum 10% ethanol".

  13. #13
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    Test done from pumps in NE Ohio. I also expected higher percentages, but even if my measurements were a bit off, the fact they're all relatively close in results answers the question about one having less ethanol than the others.

    Also, Sunoco is indeed top-tier as of Feb 2017 when they rolled out their new blends. I'm no chemist, so take my observations on the detergent levels with a grain of salt.
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  14. #14
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    I have used Torco, Boostane and Race Gas to raise my octane for my S/C car. I prefer Race Gas and Boostane, as they don't come out of solution like Torco occasionally does. But having said that, I ran Torco for almost 2 years and never saw any deposits on my widebands or my plugs. Race Gas Octane Booster and Boostane are more expensive than Torco, but for the peace of mind they provide, it is worth every penny. I would suggest that anyone worried about the quality of gasoline from the pump, keep a quart of any of these octane boosters in their car, just in the event that their gas quality becomes an issue.
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  15. #15
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    @15psi, thanks for the info - I had not heard of Race Gas Octane Booster so started looking around on the internet. The stuff reviews very well. It does leave the same orange residue on plugs and O2 just like Torco and Boostane but claims to actually increase the chemical energy of the blended fuel. I ordered a can on amazon

    There's a station about an hour from me that sells Cam2 100 octane so while tuning this weekend I may run a tank to see how much additional timing I can throw at it.
    '16 ATS 2.0t/8L45
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    Thank you for letting me know that Sunoco is TopTier certified now! I've always avoided Sunoco, but since there are really the only gas station near my house, I can now start using them!! I had no idea that they had become a TopTier station. That's great news!

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    coloredwater.png

    Tell me if this legal for a fuel station to list the octanes sold as stated; now compare it to the government label adhered to the left of those ratings being sold.

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    It's hard to tell from that picture, but it looks like they tried to "cross out" the 3 in "93" - or make it into a very thick "1". :-) No idea whether it's legal or not, but.... I'd guess that it's really 91 octane.

  19. #19
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    It should just be illegal to make it cost a dollar more a gallon for just 91 octane LOL.

    It's only 35-45 cents a gallon more for 91,92,93 octane here over 87.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

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  20. #20
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    No joke that's a rough price hike for premium. all the stations here, (here being the west texas permian basin area) have stickers on the pump stating each product is within + - 2% of the specified rating. So you can probably safely assume it's not +2% because they aren't giving the goods away. -2% of 90=88.2 thats the best I can find within 35 miles of me. So I buy premium 90 ass-u-me-ing it's at least 88. Although I could drive 35 miles and get some 102 octane from sunoco for $10.00+ a gallon WTF. That's so expensive it's silly.