P0106 2013 Challenger with supercharger

[mxatunerjg]

Car is a very heavily modified 6 speed Challenger. Issue is P0108 code and throttle light pops up randomly, but much more often at dragstrip in 4th gear. When it throws the code it kills the throttle. The car never gave this issue until the boost was pushed up to about 16-17 psi. It acts like it is hitting the voltage limits for the MAP sensor. Based on what information I found about how when that code is thrown it makes sense as to why it does it at the dragstrip (has to do with the amount of time and consecutive times the ECU sees high voltage signal). The car does have the 2.5 bar sensor and it has been replaced.

Two tunes attached below, both are basically the same, just some adjustments made to test some things. Unfortuneatly this is a friend's car and for some stupid reason I can't seem to get lucky enough to get a log of this when it actually happens. Last night we were at the drag strip and it seemed to be doing it on every run so I hooked up the laptop, but then it rained. So frustrating.

Any thoughts? I did consider putting a voltage clamp on the MAP sensor output so the computer doesn't ever see the full boost signal, but trying to avoid that if possible.

Thank you!


mXa_final_max_map_volts_increase.hpt
mXa_final.hpt

[bradyzq]

If you have a 2.5 bar MAP sensor, and you're only hitting 2.15 bar or so, you're not maxxing out the MAP sensor. Which I think is what you were trying to test when you increased the max MAP voltage to 6.50V. Don't do this. The sensor will never read over 5V, no matter what the boost is.

Just make sure you have the correct calibration data for your MAP sensor and leave that alone.

However, right above the max MAP voltage that you changed lies at least part of the answer to your issue.

[mxatunerjg]

If you have a 2.5 bar MAP sensor, and you're only hitting 2.15 bar or so, you're not maxxing out the MAP sensor. Which I think is what you were trying to test when you increased the max MAP voltage to 6.50V. Don't do this. The sensor will never read over 5V, no matter what the boost is.

Just make sure you have the correct calibration data for your MAP sensor and leave that alone.

However, right above the max MAP voltage that you changed lies at least part of the answer to your issue.

I have had that value at 250 KPA and it still had the same problem. You are correct, I only changed that value to 6.50V for one run just to see if for some reason it was the issue. I know the sensor cannot read that high, and at that boost level it should not be even reading 5 volts, but I wanted to see what happened.

Another thing here...and this is a big mistake on my part in typing all of this...it was NOT Code P0106. It is however P0108! I apologize, I think when I typed all this up I was thinking it was 106.

[bradyzq]

I have had that value at 250 KPA and it still had the same problem. You are correct, I only changed that value to 6.50V for one run just to see if for some reason it was the issue. I know the sensor cannot read that high, and at that boost level it should not be even reading 5 volts, but I wanted to see what happened.

Another thing here...and this is a big mistake on my part in typing all of this...it was NOT Code P0106. It is however P0108! I apologize, I think when I typed all this up I was thinking it was 106.

Well, regardless of whether you've had the max MAP as high as 250kpa, you're running more boost than 195kpa, so that's got to change. And P0108 makes more sense.

[mxatunerjg]

Well, regardless of whether you've had the max MAP as high as 250kpa, you're running more boost than 195kpa, so that's got to change. And P0108 makes more sense.

Yeah the P0108 thing was just plain a mistake. As for the 250kpa, I am going to just try going back and starting fresh from the original tune I started with, and make the needed changes to it. I'm thinking somewhere along the line something got messed up, at this point I've made so many changes and adjustments trying to fix the issue that I'm getting lost as to what all of the files actually are meaning anymore. I get the feeling there is a value changed somewhere in the tune that I'm just missing. Part of the issue is, I'm started with a tune that someone else originally did, and I always find it easier to just start from scratch in most cases.

The only reason I dropped back to 195 kpa was because I was told by someone that the ECU in this car will not take a value above that, which I find odd because this isn't the first higher boost 2013 Hemi I've tuned. I've never had this problem before. If starting fresh does not fix it then I'm going to start testing some wiring as well as the sensor (which I've already replaced once). Probably consider testing it with a DVOM or maybe even my O-scope to match the voltage signals up with the logs just to make sure we aren't getting some weird feedback somewhere occasionally.

[mxatunerjg]

If I set the Max Map KPA to anything above 195kpa it causes the car to shut down as soon as it hits 195kpa, it feels like a limiter.

[mxatunerjg]

So I got the car on the dyno where we could be a little more controlled about testing this entire issue. We set the KPA to 250 and that did not work as we suspected. It cause the car to break up (hit a limiter) as soon as we exceeded 200 KPA. So that got me to thinking about all of this again. So I set the max KPA back to 195 and did a pull while logging the actual MAP sensor voltage. As suspected the sensor voltage was maxed out. So we installed a 3 bar sensor to test. The car ran great and has since done fine on the dragstrip. That said, setting the MAX KPA to anything above 200 will cause the computer to hit a limiter if the boost level hits or exceeds 200 kpa. So I kept it at 195, and because the sensor voltage is now not maxed out the car does not go into limp mode. I missed this before because the boost level in the log was not showing more than 195 KPA since that is what the max KPA is set at. Once I saw the voltage level of the sensor I knew what the issue was.

[bradyzq]

You still have an issue if you can't tell the ECU there's more than 195kpa MAP with a 3 bar MAP sensor. Did you input the correct data for the 3 bar sensor? Is MAP correct with key on engine off? I strongly suspect your issue is not in the Engine Diag tab.

[mxatunerjg]

You still have an issue if you can't tell the ECU there's more than 195kpa MAP with a 3 bar MAP sensor. Did you input the correct data for the 3 bar sensor? Is MAP correct with key on engine off? I strongly suspect your issue is not in the Engine Diag tab.

Map Sensor Data is correct, and MAP/Baro readings are correct, at least up until it hits the 195 kpa limit where it flat lines at 195 kpa in the logs. Are you sure about the 195 limit on this year vehicle. I was under the impression this is actually an issue on the 2012 and newer cars.

[[email protected]]

This is actually an issue on many cars from 2010 on. We previously installed a "MAP Clamp" to avoid this issue but later determined that setting kPa limit to 195 has the same effect as a MAP clamp. I do not know of a way around this but if someone does please let us know. Basically MAP V hits a value and the injectors shut off. Log InjPW and MAP V and you will see this happen. Back in 2010 we tried DCX 2bar & 3bar MAPs, GM 3bar MAP, AEM 4bar MAP - nothing worked. If someone has a different workaround please share.

[mxatunerjg]

This is actually an issue on many cars from 2010 on. We previously installed a "MAP Clamp" to avoid this issue but later determined that setting kPa limit to 195 has the same effect as a MAP clamp. I do not know of a way around this but if someone does please let us know. Basically MAP V hits a value and the injectors shut off. Log InjPW and MAP V and you will see this happen. Back in 2010 we tried DCX 2bar & 3bar MAPs, GM 3bar MAP, AEM 4bar MAP - nothing worked. If someone has a different workaround please share.

Mike, thank you so much for chiming in. Always wanting to learn new things, and in my testing I found the same thing you did. I knew all the 6.4 cars up to at least 2014 this was an issue, but I had not checked it on anything older. From what you are saying, I am curious if this is an issue on all of the Neural Network cars. Basically all the VCT cars. Do you know if the later 6.1 cars had this same issue, maybe 2009 - 2011? I know you said you tested in 2010, did you test on both 5.7 and 6.1 based ecu?

[[email protected]]

Mike, thank you so much for chiming in. Always wanting to learn new things, and in my testing I found the same thing you did. I knew all the 6.4 cars up to at least 2014 this was an issue, but I had not checked it on anything older. From what you are saying, I am curious if this is an issue on all of the Neural Network cars. Basically all the VCT cars. Do you know if the later 6.1 cars had this same issue, maybe 2009 - 2011? I know you said you tested in 2010, did you test on both 5.7 and 6.1 based ecu?

We originally thought that this was limited to the 2010 and up RT's(5.7 VVT) and installed MAP clamps anytime we did a build making 14psi or more. Then back in 2012 we ran into the same issue on 2012 SRT. So your assumption that this is limited to VVT cars may be correct. I can tell you that our 2006 SRT Jeep runs a 3bar, makes 25+ psi and has no such issues.

[Mep_q8]

would love to see a log of this.. there seems to be a few tables that could do changed..

[mxatunerjg]

would love to see a log of this.. there seems to be a few tables that could do changed..

Could you be more specific, logs showing general engine operation, or logs showing the issue being discussed in this thread?

[Mep_q8]

Logs showing issues in the thread.

[GrannySShifting]

So basically there is a hard limit of 195 kPa boost with these cars? What if you just used a 3-4 bar map, and scaled it so that max voltage was 195 kPa? lose a little resolution but not really a big deal. Its what Ive had to do with 98 LS ecus with 2 bar max map reading capability

[Pector55]

Has anyone else submitted a ticket on this? I submitted one today and I will link this thread, along with the one I had posted on Monday, 6/29/2019 Can the MAP force a shift

I'm wondering if they have a MAP Voltage limit in the fuel cutoff section. I'm hoping that the engineers may be able to find it and make it available. I have heard that the tuner from MMX, DTP, and now OST are aware so I suspect an issue was created but just in case, I put one in as well. In the meantime I'm keeping my boost level around 15 and setting my MAP limit to 195 to test the workaround on my '13 RT.