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Thread: ID1000 Coyote, unsolved.

  1. #1
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    ID1000 Coyote 30% rich, 20% lean

    I?ve been having a problem with my STFT that goes beyond MAF and no one seems to be able to figure it out. I can?t fix it, nor can some pretty experienced tuners I?ve spoke with and sent files to. So it?s time I reach out to even more experienced tuners.

    I have a 2012 Mustang GT with cobra jet, twin 67mm, JLT cold air intake and 1 7/8 longtubes. I have a winter build coming up so I?ve been buying parts, which included some ID1000?s. I decided to go ahead and install them. Grabbed data from Injector dynamics PDF file. Ever since then, my STFT are not doing anything I need them to, and are enjoying 30% rich and 20% lean and have seen a lambda of .64 at idle.

    I?ve done my MAF transfer over 50 times. My MAF curve will end up being out of numerical order, though it does have a curve. I?ve used three GT500 throttle body calibrations and 1 posted as an actual 67mm . Checked vacuum leaks, exhaust leaks. Sent my injector data and even injectors to ID to make sure every thing was alright with those. I?ve put the stock injectors in and it worked great. I even put the ID1000?s on the stock intake manifold and got the same failing results.

    Some of the tuners I?ve spoke with either didn?t know, or disappear. One even told me I don?t know how things work. They looked at my file/logs and were dumbfounded. The only way to get my STFT close to acceptable was by opening my throttle body min. I could get within 5% of STFT. The next day, I went out there to do a little more tuning, and it was back in it lean/rich state.

    I took a few screen shots of some of what I?m talking about. I can?t go forward with my other plans because it?s like my PCM is not accepting the changes to the injectors, or my injectors need to be calibrated different than ID suggested.

    I?m trying to see if any one has ever experienced something like this or has any ideas of what I could try?? Any help is great.



    One of those i'm 28% rich, and then STFT goes straight to 0 and my lambda is .67. I'll get some logs posted soon
    CHART.JPGCHART2.JPGgraph.JPGinjector_data.JPGrich.JPG
    Last edited by Thatwhite5.0; 07-23-2017 at 03:02 AM. Reason: Title change

  2. #2
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    Can you post your actual tune and actual logs? Little easier that way. May just need to address the response rate of the o2's being you have the long tubes. Assume no cats?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwhite5.0 View Post
    I?ve been having a problem with my STFT that goes beyond MAF and no one seems to be able to figure it out. I can?t fix it, nor can some pretty experienced tuners I?ve spoke with and sent files to. So it?s time I reach out to even more experienced tuners.

    I have a 2012 Mustang GT with cobra jet, twin 67mm, JLT cold air intake and 1 7/8 longtubes. I have a winter build coming up so I?ve been buying parts, which included some ID1000?s. I decided to go ahead and install them. Grabbed data from Injector dynamics PDF file. Ever since then, my STFT are not doing anything I need them to, and are enjoying 30% rich and 20% lean and have seen a lambda of .64 at idle.

    I?ve done my MAF transfer over 50 times. My MAF curve will end up being out of numerical order, though it does have a curve. I?ve used three GT500 throttle body calibrations and 1 posted as an actual 67mm . Checked vacuum leaks, exhaust leaks. Sent my injector data and even injectors to ID to make sure every thing was alright with those. I?ve put the stock injectors in and it worked great. I even put the ID1000?s on the stock intake manifold and got the same failing results.

    Some of the tuners I?ve spoke with either didn?t know, or disappear. One even told me I don?t know how things work. They looked at my file/logs and were dumbfounded. The only way to get my STFT close to acceptable was by opening my throttle body min. I could get within 5% of STFT. The next day, I went out there to do a little more tuning, and it was back in it lean/rich state.

    I took a few screen shots of some of what I?m talking about. I can?t go forward with my other plans because it?s like my PCM is not accepting the changes to the injectors, or my injectors need to be calibrated different than ID suggested.

    I?m trying to see if any one has ever experienced something like this or has any ideas of what I could try?? Any help is great.



    One of those i'm 28% rich, and then STFT goes straight to 0 and my lambda is .67. I'll get some logs posted soon
    CHART.JPGCHART2.JPGgraph.JPGinjector_data.JPGrich.JPG
    Checking the transport delay as mentioned is important.

    Additionally, make sure the injectors fully seat in the manifold. With the Boss intake the fuel rail bosses are too long and have to be trimmed to allow the injector to fully seat into the manifold. You don't want to have to tune around a hardware issue.

    I have used ID's and Injector Clinic injectors on many different combos with many different fuel types without issue.

    Posting the tune for review would help double check your settings.

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner 15PSI's Avatar
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    Try these values for the 67 Twin TB and the ID1000s. They work for many tuners

    .ID1000 Specs.png67 Twin TB.png
    2012 Mustang GT with S/C
    4Runner with S/C
    Turbo/NOS Hayabusa - 320RWHP

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06300CSRT8 View Post
    Can you post your actual tune and actual logs? Little easier that way. May just need to address the response rate of the o2's being you have the long tubes. Assume no cats?

    I do have catless x-pipe. I've tried different percentage increases on the o2 transport delay.


    Quote Originally Posted by wbt View Post
    Checking the transport delay as mentioned is important.

    Additionally, make sure the injectors fully seat in the manifold. With the Boss intake the fuel rail bosses are too long and have to be trimmed to allow the injector to fully seat into the manifold. You don't want to have to tune around a hardware issue.

    I have used ID's and Injector Clinic injectors on many different combos with many different fuel types without issue.

    Posting the tune for review would help double check your settings.


    My injectors are seated. Screwed to down to the top of the manifold. Do they have to be trimmed often? I know people with same mods, same years, not having any problem. I've put the stock manifold back on and had the same STFT results, sprayed brake clean all over looking or leaks or fluctuations too, but I'm not ruling anything out.


    Quote Originally Posted by 15PSI View Post
    Try these values for the 67 Twin TB and the ID1000s. They work for many tuners

    .ID1000 Specs.png67 Twin TB.png
    I actually got the VMP from some screenshots you have recently posted.

    I'll try the ID1000's out. thanks




    I'll post several logs here including a recent remote connection, titled "Base 1, 2, 3". I do not have the tune files for the 3 attempts but you can see how the results of the changes. There also a log I just made of a cold start, I rev it up towards 10 minutes so you can see the STFT richen. The same tune is attached.

    My MAF curve has a tendency get out of order from the datalogs.

    0.948396325111389
    0.820549428462982
    0.717232823371887
    0.728857159614563
    0.646653771400452

    Base 2.hplBase 3.hplcoldstart.hplBase_idle.hpl
    Last edited by Thatwhite5.0; 07-22-2017 at 03:35 AM.

  6. #6
    Not sure if it's any help. But I am experiencing the same issue. I know for a fact something is up because I have used this tune on multiple cars as a base. Never an issue and it's the same combo as others I have tuned and got those to +\- 1% or less on the MAF curve.



    ID1700s with all the correct data.I've checked for leaks etc etc the whole nine. The hardware is solid as can be.


    Commanded lamda idle 1.0


    Trims will vary from 18-28% no matter what I do, even after said adjustments. No matter how many times I adjust the MAF curve at idle and apply the corrections.

    Then out of no where both trims will go to zero. Commanded still at 1.0, but the 02 will read .72 one bank and .75 other.

    These are brand new zero mile Ford factory wide bands. I am really unsure what it could be. Also brand new ID1700x.

    Possible scanner issue? I think it could be. I want to say this started happening after I updated to the most current version.

    Called up a previous customer. Pulled the tune off his car. Exact same setup as the one I'm currently trying to tune. Put it on the current car, runs perfectly fine, however the issue is still there at idle in regards to reading with with trims bouncing around way in left field then going to zero and 02s saying it rich. I need a standalone wideband.
    Last edited by Blueprint; 07-21-2017 at 07:41 PM.

  7. #7
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    I also have brand new motorcraft O2's.

    In one of my posted logs, my STFT is 0 and my o2s are reading around 30% rich

    I don't believe its a scanner problem. Im

  8. #8
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    (Sorry hit wrong button)

    On one of my "base" logs, if i posted it, i revved up a little and the car went real rich and died out

    What kind of car and strategy, Blueprint?.

  9. #9
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    I have seen a bad set of ID1000s before. One (of 8) was sticking open. It's rare but possible.

  10. #10
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    Fuel system goes to OL fault, Fuel source goes to OL FMEM. This usually means some sensor or sensors are bad.

    Your ambient temp sensor is reading 59*. based on your IATs I don't believe it. In one of your logs Idle_base it ramps up to 113* in about ten seconds and the EQs almost look normal until the fuel system and fuel source change. I would say you have a bad ambient temp sensor.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwhite5.0 View Post
    (Sorry hit wrong button)

    On one of my "base" logs, if i posted it, i revved up a little and the car went real rich and died out

    What kind of car and strategy, Blueprint?.
    Here is the reason I THINK something could be going on with the scanner (there have been issues before with scanner). Mine also was dying and sputtering after trying all types of corrections to the maf. Kept saying rich rich rich, pretty much the same amount every time even after applying 20% less fuel it asked for. It was an endless road that I gave up on. So like I said, I took the MAF curve out of another customers car, loaded it up, took the car on a 100mile drive. Car ran perfect, no stalling, no hesitation, nothing. Under cruising conditions, STFT were 2% and under. Once you stop, and are in idle conditions, trims go wacky for a few minutes 18+ rich, eventually zero out (which should never happen) and then the widebands read rich condition with no change to how the car is running. Car has been looked over with a fine tooth comb, no exhaust leaks, vacuum leaks, everything is setup perfectly.


    Turbo car, return system. Strategy I cannot remember at this moment, I may try and change it and see if that solves the issue. Unfortunately I was not able to read the stock strategy as the car was tuned by someone else previous and he didn't receive his SCT when he purchased car from previous owner and the dealership wanted an absurd amount of money for stock flash.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    Fuel system goes to OL fault, Fuel source goes to OL FMEM. This usually means some sensor or sensors are bad.

    Your ambient temp sensor is reading 59*. based on your IATs I don't believe it. In one of your logs Idle_base it ramps up to 113* in about ten seconds and the EQs almost look normal until the fuel system and fuel source change. I would say you have a bad ambient temp sensor.
    Mine also went to OL FMEM once, however I will say absolutely everything in this car is brand new.

    Inejectors, motor, fuel system, turbo system, engine harness, all sensors. Brand new.
    Last edited by Blueprint; 07-21-2017 at 11:42 PM.

  13. #13
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    FMEM is triggered by a sensor being out of predefined limits. like a fail safe mode, it's calibrated for stock injectors. Nothing you change in the tune, unless it's a table used by the fmem strategy, will fix the issue. Very few of these tables are defined in HPT. Start checking sensor out puts and look for bad ones like OPs ambient temp sensor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwhite5.0 View Post
    My injectors are seated. Screwed to down to the top of the manifold. Do they have to be trimmed often? I know people with same mods, same years, not having any problem. I've put the stock manifold back on and had the same STFT results, sprayed brake clean all over looking or leaks or fluctuations too, but I'm not ruling anything out.
    See if you can physically move the injector up and down with the retaining clips removed. If so the rail bosses are too long which cause the injector to ride too high in the manifold. They need to be fully seated on the manifold side.

    As I mentioned in PM's....VMP said to use the Ford data for their 67mm TB which was wrong. I had to factor in the area difference and only then did I get the TB to stop oscillating at part throttle.

    Post your tune so we can validate the data.

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    The tunes in post number 5. with three log files. the MAF curve around 600-580 period is definitely not right, but I don't think the issue is going to be fixed with the MAF curve. The driver demand table could be causing the issue with torque values out of order as they are.
    Last edited by murfie; 07-22-2017 at 01:27 AM.

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    Ack...my apologies. Will review and post feedback.

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    Manifold volume isn't right.

    Timing tables for borderline OP look like a power adder car.

    TQ Mgmt Oscillation Switch should be disabled.

    WOT lambda is a bit rich.

    I would enable LTFT.

    Injector data is fine.

    Transport delay is fine.

    Transport time constant is off.

    Cylair Anticipation, WOT and Max are way off for a N/A car.

    Manual trans settings for enable energy need to have a few zeros added.

    Be forthcoming on all of the mods to the car. Some values don't add up in the tune for N/A.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbt View Post
    Manifold volume isn't right.

    Timing tables for borderline OP look like a power adder car.

    TQ Mgmt Oscillation Switch should be disabled.

    WOT lambda is a bit rich.

    I would enable LTFT.

    Injector data is fine.

    Transport delay is fine.

    Transport time constant is off.

    Cylair Anticipation, WOT and Max are way off for a N/A car.

    Manual trans settings for enable energy need to have a few zeros added.

    Be forthcoming on all of the mods to the car. Some values don't add up in the tune for N/A.
    To add to the BKT values: 2* were added to the timing tables, 2* were added to the advance limit, the knock advance rate was increased. car probably gets to 24-25* at WOT, when its not running up into knock, which is higher than power adder timing. Raising MBT tables 5* in the high load areas was not needed and only negativity effected your torque ratio as now your borderline and MBT values are further apart. More load>higher cylinder pressures> lower MBT values. More engine speed>piston moving faster relative to flame front> higher MBT values. If you are revving up to 8000 you may want to extend the tables axis to accommodate that.

    good suggestions, But any way none of these would cause a rich at idle only issue.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    good suggestions, But any way none of these would cause a rich at idle only issue.
    Definitely not hence the reason I suggest he look at a hardware issue.

    Since the injector data is correct I would focus on the MAF transfer if hardware and throttle body data check out.

    20% off would lend me to believe that there is un-metered air entering somewhere.

  20. #20
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    unmetered air would cause it to go lean not rich. Rich would be metered air not getting into the cylinder(not likely as air flows towards vaccum not away). Exhaust leaks would also cause the O2s to read lean as fresh air entered in low pressure pockets. Misfires would allow unburnt o2 into exhaust and cause a lean spike in O2 readings.

    Extremely Rich conditions are always failed sensors/wiring harness pinched/ bad grounds, stuck injectors, fuel pressure too high, Low MAP transient conditions, or tune data. The tune would need to be really far off to see 30% fuel trims.
    Last edited by murfie; 07-22-2017 at 03:20 AM.