ID1000 Coyote, unsolved.

[wbt]

unmetered air would cause it to go lean not rich. Rich would be metered air not getting into the cylinder(not likely as air flows towards vaccum not away). Exhaust leaks would also cause the O2s to read lean as fresh air entered in low pressure pockets. Misfires would allow unburnt o2 into exhaust and cause a lean spike in O2 readings.

Extremely Rich conditions are always failed sensors/wiring harness pinched/ bad grounds, stuck injectors, fuel pressure too high, Low MAP transient conditions, or tune data. The tune would need to be really far off to see 30% fuel trims.

I had a similar situation with a car I work on from Dallas. It was both tune and hardware related. The owner had an incompetent shop do a converter install and then tried to remote tune it from another shop. After I had the car in person....I found a wiring harness pinched between the bell housing and engine and a very incomplete e85 tune. Once I got that fixed and was able to get correct data, the car went from high 11's to high 10's N/A.

The OP has tried to modify the Maf transfer to correct fuel trims with no change. An exhaust leak isn't going to account for the amount of % off. The graph he posted shows ~--21 off, oscillating to +30 post adding fuel. That tells me it is lean and trying to correct...overcorrects then back lean. TPS is pretty flat.

He is trying to tune around a hardware issue....

[Thatwhite5.0]

Fuel system goes to OL fault, Fuel source goes to OL FMEM. This usually means some sensor or sensors are bad.

Your ambient temp sensor is reading 59*. based on your IATs I don't believe it. In one of your logs Idle_base it ramps up to 113* in about ten seconds and the EQs almost look normal until the fuel system and fuel source change. I would say you have a bad ambient temp sensor.

I did notice just earlier the fault in fuel source. The car was parked in 100* heat. However, I did not see the temperature due to where I have it on the chart. I've checked past logs and the ambient sensor seems to be hit or miss
The logs I posted were from a recent remote tuning session I tried before posting. As you can see, it lasted 3 files. The file posted did not go with the the logs, just an attempt at what a professional tuner would do.
THAT specific MAF curve is the result of trying to get the STFT correct. The trims were doing what they do, the opposite of what I want.

mafcurve1.JPG

I do have not see knock at 25*, changes will be made.
Thanks for answering, I?ve learned a lot from the information you make available.

See if you can physically move the injector up and down with the retaining clips removed. If so the rail bosses are too long which cause the injector to ride too high in the manifold. They need to be fully seated on the manifold side.

As I mentioned in PM's....VMP said to use the Ford data for their 67mm TB which was wrong. I had to factor in the area difference and only then did I get the TB to stop oscillating at part throttle.

Manifold volume isn't right.
Timing tables for borderline OP look like a power adder car.
TQ Mgmt Oscillation Switch should be disabled.
WOT lambda is a bit rich.
I would enable LTFT.
Transport time constant is off.
Cylair Anticipation, WOT and Max are way off for a N/A car.
.

These are things I?ve read over the forums. Even in a post you said you didn?t notice a change in fuel trims for volume. I tried it and was still 30% rich, so I changed it back.
Been recommended by a few to disable LTFT while dialing MAF.
The transport time constant was left stock
The injectors and fuel rail both do not move at all, they?re on there good. I?ve got the 67mm data 15psi posted from another thread in another file that I had already tried. Making the changes didn?t work, I?m hoping this sensor will cure it, I?ll
Thanks for the suggestions. I?ll go buy the sensor in the morning and apply everything you both said.

[Blueprint]

You did say you put the stock injectors in and everything was fine?

If it was a sensor, I just don't see how that is possible. The problem should remain the same.

Curious are you factory fuel system aside from the id1000?



**** For sanity sake I just went and checked everything. I'll be damned, the spacers for the fuel rails are making injectors sit too high, some were sitting higher than others, I could move them up and down probably 1/4" ( aftermarket rails id1700). I remember when I checked this prior I heard them snap in, I guess just not far enough.


I remember Shaun @ AED mentioning this a few years ago. I guess when I get a moment I will trim the spacers and grab a few logs.

[murfie]

You did say you put the stock injectors in and everything was fine?

If it was a sensor, I just don't see how that is possible. The problem should remain the same.

Curious are you factory fuel system aside from the id1000?



**** For sanity sake I just went and checked everything. I'll be damned, the spacers for the fuel rails are making injectors sit too high, some were sitting higher than others, I could move them up and down probably 1/4" ( aftermarket rails id1700). I remember when I checked this prior I heard them snap in, I guess just not far enough.


I remember Shaun @ AED mentioning this a few years ago. I guess when I get a moment I will trim the spacers and grab a few logs.

FMEM is an alternate system strategy to compensate for faulty sensor data, Because it was calibrated for the stock injector control it works fine with them. Once it goes into FMEM with aftermarket injectors it runs too rich just like if you left the stock injector data in.

[Blueprint]

Here is a log from the other day. One is short and one is long. Compare idle vs cruising later in log. LTFT is on, maf temp compensation is off for now ( per cookbook). Sensors seem to be working properly on this car.

[murfie]

your at the minimum injector pulse width. Whats your fuel pressure at idle? The goal would be to decrease it at low LB/min and increase it when needed through the fuel pump duty cycle. Looking at thatwhite5.0's logs he is also at the minimum injector pulse width.

[Blueprint]

your at the minimum injector pulse width. Whats your fuel pressure at idle? The goal would be to decrease it at low LB/min and increase it when needed through the fuel pump duty cycle. Looking at thatwhite5.0's logs he is also at the minimum injector pulse width.

I probably should have made my own thread. Sorry guys. Similar issue so I carried on.

Its a return system. ID1700. Fuel pressure was set car off pumps on @ 55 psi per Injector Dynamics. All data was also transferred from their calculator and applied to tune.

1:1 Fore regulator with vacuum line hooked to manifold.

Current fuel pressure at idle is roughly 45 with the line hooked up. Boost/Vac gauge says 20 at idle.

[Blueprint]

FMEM is an alternate system strategy to compensate for faulty sensor data, Because it was calibrated for the stock injector control it works fine with them. Once it goes into FMEM with aftermarket injectors it runs too rich just like if you left the stock injector data in.

Hmm. A change I made, which may have something to do with it, maybe you would know. I am not sure when I made it.


Fuel > Open loop Closed Loop>Base Fuel > Fuel Override. I changed it from 1.0 to .77 due to this being a boosted vehicle (just incase). Description says, commanded lambda when fuel strategy if over ridden. Could that be an issue?

[murfie]

Hmm. A change I made, which may have something to do with it, maybe you would know. I am not sure when I made it.


Fuel > Open loop Closed Loop>Base Fuel > Fuel Override. I changed it from 1.0 to .77 due to this being a boosted vehicle (just incase). Description says, commanded lambda when fuel strategy if over ridden. Could that be an issue?

I didn't see FMEM in your logs. Sounds like your fuel system is working right, pulling 10psi for 10psi(20inHG) of vacuum. If you had a vacuum leak, with your fuel system being based on vacuum, I could see it running rich. Doesn't seem like that is the case with reported fuel pressure and vacuum.

May need to get more air at idle and control it with spark.

[Thatwhite5.0]

Blueprint, its cool, keep it here, similar problems. It will help others.

I went and bought another sensor today, sadly, same results. i looked at some of my previous logs, it seems like the sensor likes 59^ but it always goes up, but never to the correct temp.
I swapped the sensor in the parking lot i was at. Drove around for a little bit. It started at 59* and went up to 75*. The temperature outside was 85*.

Its weird but, does the newer mustangs have two ambient sensors? The sensor on the radio reads the correct temp. Not 100% how that works.

[Dev1360]

On a 15+ the ambient sensor is attached to the bumper bar underneath the bumper cover. Where was the sensor that you changed? You wouldn't be able to quickly swap it in a parking lot as far as I know. Unless you're Stretch Armstrong lol

[Thatwhite5.0]

The ambient temp sensor is located on the lower part of the bumper mounted on the top on 11-14. Changed it out, drove around and went home. It gets stuck at 59*, it hasn'tbeen that cold since winter.
20170723_060522.jpg

[Blueprint]

On this car sometimes the sensor reads correctly. Sometimes it also gets stuck at 59*.

This car also has a brand new sensor. I wonder why this happens?


I just looked at a log from my personal car from two years ago and the sensor also reads correct and incorrect at times. Never an issue with that car though.

What does the ambient sensor factor into?


I wish I had an SCT for this car so I could compare logs.

[Blueprint]

Something I noticed while looking at the logs I posted..

When the car is sitting at IDLE the stft will not register. They will be at zero. Once the throttle is opened and the car starts moving the stft start registering again, and they begin to target the 1.0 commanded. Once I stop again, stft back to zero and rich condition.

Why would that be?

[Thatwhite5.0]

I don't know why it would happen or if it is the cause of my problem. I'm not sure if it could have this much effect on the fuel trims.
ambient.JPG

Mine will idle at -29% but it could also idle at 0% when the O2's are reading richer than .68. If I make a pretty strong adjustment to the maf curve, it will turn the opposite way an go lean 30%.
0stft.JPGstft28to0.JPG

The pic of this log was taken at the same time as the other ones. This sensor is brand new still. There has to be something more to it
samedaysparkjump.JPG

[Devildog1325]

If this is just happening at idle I have had the same issue's using the ID1000's and I asked support while I was getting help with another issue(I may have to make another ticket)if they could look into getting the Offset multiplier vs rail temp and slope multiplier vs rail temp added for the injector data. I believe SCT has these available with there software and it should help this issue out allot. At a cold start my fuel trims at idle would be around 15% lean and once it warms up and i've been setting in traffic it being in the 90's it would be around -20%. When I have corrected the maf while in cooler temps for the lean trims when it warms up it would get so rich it would fail and go into open loop.

[Thatwhite5.0]

I'm on stock fuel system, NA. No E85. Pump gas. Stock fuel pressure.
Do you think it could be something with the fuel pump?
I've sent me logs to a fuel people and they gave me recommendations, the only thing that helped was keeping the throttle body opened a little more at idle, it idled better, STFT were not perfect. They were much better. It lasted for the night. The next day the fuel trims were back to rich.




Devildog, have you tried the info 15PSI said??

Try these values for the 67 Twin TB and the ID1000s. They work for many tuners

.Attachment 71519Attachment 71518

[06300CSRT8]

I'm on stock fuel system, NA. No E85. Pump gas. Stock fuel pressure.
Do you think it could be something with the fuel pump?
I've sent me logs to a fuel people and they gave me recommendations, the only thing that helped was keeping the throttle body opened a little more at idle, it idled better, STFT were not perfect. They were much better. It lasted for the night. The next day the fuel trims were back to rich.




Devildog, have you tried the info 15PSI said??

Sorry if I missed your posting of the tune? I would like to look at a few things if I may.

[Blueprint]

I agree there has to be more to this issue.

The tune I am using has worked perfect on past cars that I have put it on. With the exact same setup. This car is brand new top to bottom all sensors etc.



I am almost positive this issue came only after I updated to the newest version of Hptuners.

Three things I may try.

1. Throwing stock injectors in (assuming I can get ahold of some) with stock injector data and seeing if the car returns to normal. Seeing as my car is not entering FMEM and staying in closed loop and all sensors are brand new, I highly doubt I am having s hardware issue. I would assume if it returns to normal there has to be something up with the way the scanner is processing things at idle. As soon as I let off the gas pedal and the PCM goes into idle conditions STFT just shuts off and returns one I start moving again.

2. Before swapping injectors, I am going to look and see if I still have an older version of hptuners and see if the issue goes away.

3. I may also try swapping to a different strategy. Although this car ran fine previously on the same strategy I am currently using on it.

[Blueprint]

I also saw those ambient settings, not certain how to properly adjust them or what they factor into though.

Mine is also doing the same in regards to the fuel trims. One second it will read rich the next way lean.