All i know is ive put id1000s on 3diff 100% stock vehicles now annnd the maf is off afterward w the ids in. And this is using their data. Has anyone else put ids in stock car to verify there data doest effect maf data?
All i know is ive put id1000s on 3diff 100% stock vehicles now annnd the maf is off afterward w the ids in. And this is using their data. Has anyone else put ids in stock car to verify there data doest effect maf data?
GOD HELP US ALL....
Thanks I don't think it would be that.Originally Posted by Blueprint
Is there any diagnosing the crank sensor or should I just go ahead and replace it?
I believe something had to of gotten wet. Right before the O2's zeroing out, I had just sprayed a good amount of brakeclean on the back part of the intake manifold around the injectors and where the intake and the head meet. I was thinking of doing a crank relearn just to see if it would do anything at all. I tried using my SCT handheld and it gave me an error, so I tried using VCM Scanner and also got an error that would not let me do the crank relearn.
When I sprayed the intake manifold the STFT didn't fluctuate more than they usually do, BUT I do remember the driver said O2 sensor went real lean for a split second and went back to running wild.
The second time I sprayed the intake manifold was when the O2's zerod out and my STFT was moving very steady. Usually STFT1 is steady and STFT2 is rapid.
Yes, my MAF was off afterwards, it's just impossible to calibrate it properly with one side of the motor running rich. These are what my fuel trims look pulled from a 2 minute cruise log.
? MAF Period: 649
STFT 1: -2.3% O2 1: 0.99
STFT 2: -12.4% O2 2: 1.00
? MAF Period 650
STFT 1: -3.1% O2 1: 1.00
STFT 2: -13.9% O2 2: .92
? MAF Period: 273
STFT 1: 6.3% O2 1: 1.06
STFT 2: -0.7% O2 2: 0.98
? MAF Period 273
STFT 1: 1.2% O2 1: 0.98
STFT 2: -4.7% O2 2: 0.95
? MAF Period: 361
STFT 1: 7.7% O2 1: 1.12
STFT 2: 7.5% O2 2: 1.07
? MAF Period 361
STFT 1: -13.5% O2 1: 0.98
STFT 2: -11.1% O2 2: 0.92
These are from a WOT log.
? 4350 RPM
MAF Period: 145
STFT 1 and 2: 0.0%
O2 1: 0.81 O2 2: 0.65
? 6000 RPM
MAF Period: 130
STFT 1/2: 0.0%
O2 1: 0.83 O2 2: 0.65
? 7550 RPM
MAF Period: 120
STFT 1/2: 0.0%
O2 1: 0.79 O2 2: 0.65
I've been contemplating on taking it to some shops, I'm very picky with who I let work on my car and usually only have time on the weekends. Last time I went to two shops that were open on Saturday and they had no idea. Not sure if I want to go to the dealership or if I should.
The error on the crank relearn is a tell tale sign....
Sounds like P0315 is disabled in the tune you are running. Can you post up the copy of the tune that failed a crank relearn?
It failed on the stock tune also. Don't have my laptop with me, I think I posted my file on page 1 or 2. I'm pretty sure I didn't disable crank relearn.
If I were you guys, I'd try some different injectors. I've seen these same issues on Hellcats and Dodge stuff with ID injectors. Everyone gets stuck on ID injectors and I'm not sure why, the best thing about them is the marketing. Other than that, they are Bosch injectors that they buy for $15 each. I've seen a "matched" set on a V8 with 8 WB O2's produce AFR differentials by 4 points!! As in one cylinder showed 10.5, the next 14.5. Not trying to trash a company, but not one set I have flowed have been close to a "matched" set. That's how they advertise but that's not how it ends up as seen many times over, so it's not really trash talk, just facts.
The problem happened after I swapped to the ID1000?s
O2 sensors checked out good, so I already had someone find me a used PCM and it should be here next week. We did a smoke test on the exhaust and it showed it was sealed, but I think I?m gonna replace or at least try and inspect the driver side header gasket or head from a better view.
I did some datalogs yesterday, and wow. Comparing them to a log I did wo days ago, the car was considerably worse. Sometime last week I turned my LTFT ON to see if it would help at all. I didn?t notice much except bank 2 is going way to fast for it to learn but it ran decent. Yesterday,I didn?t do anything to the tune, my idle was rough, my STFT were spready apart further than I?ve seen. The fuel trims were so far off, up and down, at cruise my car would actually surge very lightly because STFT2 was going from -29% to +20% with Bank 1 trying to chase it down also.
20lean.JPG28rich.JPG
Same Period but far results
2.JPG1.JPG
My o2's are reading rich and my STFT is -23%. I don't think that's right.
Do you have another set of injectors you can try? If you venture into the Dodge area you’ll see some same issues. It may be a mapping issue or data issue, but come on, you can’t tell me even new parts are not bad. It happens, IF it is an injector issue with just data points, ID needs to figure that out and help. Having a vehicle on the dyno that clearly has some sort of injector or injector data issue running like crap then swapping to a different brand fixed the issue shows that there is a legit issue that needs to be addressed.
Since you are laying out the "facts" and not trash talk, and you claimed that they are buying them for $15 each, how about you back up that claim with facts, and prove that?
Your example of a V8, having such a widespread differential, and the fault of the ID injectors themselves, sounds like BS to me. More then likely, trash in the lines. Where would that go? Right into the injectors. Whose at fault for something like that?
www.crawford-racing.com
Home of the original and best selling CR-Fueler plug and play port injection controller kits for all GM Gen V direct injection platforms.
BOOM !!! Excellent points.
Did I claim to run ID's books? This whole post and problems guys are having have nothing to do with the price of injector. Who really cares anyway what ID gets them for? Of course they are going to raise the price based on their time invested. Based on the Bosch buy-in's, from the diesel side of the industry, and the fact that you can get a set of 8 for $100-$150 bucks, what's that come out to per injector?? In ID's defense, they are getting higher flow rate injectors than these cheap sets are rated at, but also look at the volume. So seeing the diesel side where where tips are purchased for about $50 per for 4, then assembled into an injector (Diesel) and sold to the end user for over $1000 bucks...simple math should help you see the whole picture here.
Again, IN ID's defense, these tests were done with multiple sets of injectors on the same car the same day, and even with multiple sets of ID injectors. So when one set has an issue, and yes I'm very aware hardware and engine design plays into cylinder imbalance, it boils down to that particular set of injectors. I state facts from personal experience, and other guys posting on here having issues and what do I get from it? One sentence posted on Yaw's FB page, name called, the company and people I work with slammed? Very professional. I don't remember saying to never buy another set of ID's, I suggested trying another set to see if that helps. Even after my post last night, on the Dyno talked with customer about getting a set of ID's, I will no longer do that at this point. My basis of comments is due to the fanboy's saying they are the best and there can NOT possibly be anything wrong with them...Really? Do other injectors have issues? Yes. Does ID have a ton of injectors out there performing as they should? Yes. Not one company has it all together, the never ending battle of man vs. machine.
Yes, they all are. Make sure my whole post, or even this whole thread makes it way onto FB. Apparently that's where all the problems get sorted out. Because some these guys including myself shouldn't be left in the dark, if it's a data issue, great! Let's figure it out and solve the problem!
Wait a minute....you stated previously in this thread that after you swapped the stock injectors back in recently the problem persists.... https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...l=1#post498163
Which is it?
Myself and other's have used ID's on multiple cars and combos without a single issue. The OP needs to take his car to a competent shop to have it looked over top to bottom. Through all of this I am still not convinced he doesn't have a hardware issue. Chasing rabbits down holes is what it all amounts to.
I do agree with this 100%, I’ve seen and heard of many Tuners blaming hardware on something they couldn’t figure out. But you can’t say in some cases it’s not a possibility. How many of us have got a bad, new, afrermarket or OEM part?
I still standby my original assessment, you need a crank relearn and/or a new crank sensor. You need a tune that doesn't have the P0315 turned off, otherwise you CANNOT do a successful relearn.
Once that is completed and if you still have issues, time to borrow or purchase a new set of injectors. At the very least, send your current set out for cleaning and flow test.
I did switch back to stock injectors before and the fuel trims were normal. Since the fuel trims were normal, I put the ID1000's back in and it had the same richness, so I can focus on that. This isn't a two week problem..
The first time swapped the stock injectors back in was about 5 months ago. THEN, on the date of the link you posted, I swapped them in once again because I wanted the car to run right and it was rich on the stock ones too. The car just doesn't get drove or get worked on as much as I'd like to.
I've bought sensors, I've checked for leaks, I've done everything everyone has posted, I even have another PCM now.
Shortly after the the trims changed at the beginning of the year, the first thing I did was replace the O2 sensors with OEM Ford Motorcraft. Spent over $300 on the two at the dealer. Still had a fuel trim problem. Over the months, I moved down the list, process of elimination. I ran out of options. The car passed leakdown tests, compression tests, vacuum leaks. My mechanic is a friend of mine and has been a master mechanic in Chevy, Kia, Ford and is now in at VW. We already ran through everything, so I bought a PCM.
A few days ago, I decided to start back at step 1. I went to Oreillys and bought a Bosch o2 sensor for $60 swapped it in and to my surprise, the fuel trims were way cleaner. I got sold a bad OEM O2 sensor by the dealer.
I still have my stock injectors in from the recent swap. The problem happened right after I went from stock injectors to aftermarket.
I?ll still do the crank relearn, P0315 was set to MIL (special). I have never done one before.
I said it numerous times, I never ruled out hardware and most of the work I did was mechanical. I work a lot and my mechanic works at the dealership during the week so our hours do not match up but every few weeks. I come here to learn what to do and what not to do.
I'm still getting injector cut, tq required lean, I'm getting a few different sources, and this log also has the STFT going flat. I'm not sure whats normal and whats not normal.
O2sensor.hpl
Thatwhite5.0 - you mind posting your tune, so it can be looked over again? Blue Bee - I always have and will try to always keep an open mind - worked for the OE for many years - seen brand new parts at the OE level have issues, so know all to well how that's possible... I've also heard from other VERY notable tuners who have had cylinder to cylinder issues with ID's - I haven't I don't think - I adjust cyl to cyl imbalances anyway while tuning and know that airflow can cause as many issus as anything else, but can see where anything is possible... Is there an injector you prefer using in these circumstances?
Thank You
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
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Open mind is all you can have with aftermarket parts! That's all I'm really getting at, as my recommendations, anything including ID's. But what I do if there is a possible injector issue is send that set to a different company and have them flow them and check them over. Don't send ID's to ID, don't send FIC's to FIC, that kind of thing. As luck would have it, not to rub salt into some trolling wounds, a local shop contacted me about tuning their shop car as it's almost done again, I said what happened to the other "new" motor, they thought at first it was the email tune but it was not. Upon getting the engine running again found something was still way wrong, sent the injectors in to a company and found one of the new ID2000 ($1200 for the set of 4) was bad. Actually 2 of them, one was labeled "bad" another questionable that should be replaced. He ended up buying 4 new (Bosch) injectors from a smaller company, paid $496 for the set, sent them to yet another company to be flow checked, 2149cc on all 4. Car tuned out great by the way, not bad for less than half than what was paid for the ID's. Just trust your gut sometimes once you start throwing parts at your car.
Sure thing. VCATH20.hpt
I know there?s faulty parts out there, but I figured I bought the best of the best going with Motorcraft. Lesson learned on that. This has been an ongoing problem and I?m learning more as I go and I appreciate every ones help.
I?m having tip in detonation once in a blue moon after shifting. I?d have to go through a few logs to find it.
I let of the fuel during a quick shift, clutch, then O2?s will lean to 2.00 and the STFT will 0, I?ll smash the fuel again and get Tipout Limit and TQ Req Lean, and I believe Torque Red < Driver Demand.
Been thinking hard on purchasing from The Tuning School because the material I have isn't in depth as I'd want.
If you have tip in detonation once in a blue moon, unless you can hear it, like really hear it, I wouldn't be to worried about it. The knock sensors can pick up on drive line shock especially with a manual transmission. Also you can't rely on the O2's and STFT during WOT pulls, with DFCO going on, quick shifts (going in and out of PE-possibly), you will beat your head against the wall chasing what doesn't look quite right in a log during a 1/4 run, the tuning school stuff is an excellent basic tuning starter course, but the items you speak of want more info on simply is not covered in detail from them.
I haven't heard it happening, I know it's happening because it's closing the throttle body enough to where the car jerks. I know I'm getting injector cut, the throttle body is closing and the spark is going from 22 down to 2.5, then back up 26 degrees. It does happen right after a shift, and that's the only time it happens.
My TB angle prediction, TB angle vs TB angle vs vacuum is set at
-----------------4.730---------8.765 in^2
0.30 ---------- 59.922 ------81.160
inHg
My datalogs are calling for me to change to
------------4.730-------8.765 in^2
0.30------81.968--------81.986
inHg
throttle.hpl
throttle2.hpl
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