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Thread: Virtual torque tables

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    I will try to explain this as best I can - if or when I screw up others can chime in to correct me

    To begin with - As best I can tell even on gen 4's the torque model is also used to control timing and throttle progressions under mostly light throttle conditions - haven't seen it effect wot conditions on a 4th gen as of yet - weird timing bites at cruise are a possible side effect from this working in conjunction with the throttle follower and idle tables / It's primarily used to control transmission line pressures - not only shift pressures, but heavily controls or rather influences the "hold" pressure, so the next time your "tuner" tells you that 6l90 or 6l80 just wasn't stout enough to handle that 650 or even 850 hp engine - keep this in mind - a lot of people don't touch this due to laziness and fear If you have a trans that shifts hard and firm, but slips cruising down the highway pulling a mountain for example - this is your problem...

    To adjust - the tables are designated by spark values (the spark closest to where the engine is running at - will vary between a couple "I assume" if values are close to one another) - axis - left axis is cylinder airmass with one extra (0) or map pressure in (kpa) depending on which tables your looking at / horizontal or overhead axis is rpm / to change the axis for rpm you have to change the tables in the tune itself although I haven't ever messed with them / cylinder airmass and map can be changed via the max controls on the left (only set as high as the engine may see for refinement of the main tables)

    I log delivered tq and dial the tables in to more in line with reality / 5th gens are supposed to have better ways of logging, but "I" have yet to get it to work

    These will make a difference in "peppiness", drivability and longevity of components - only ever once saw power from them and pretty sure that was a fluke after someone else did more studying into the functionality of the OS's...

    Hopefully this will help you out - everyone can let me know what I screwed up
    let me see if i understand this...

    You could set up a graph to mimic the torque table(s) in the tune...log delivered torque in that graph...then filter the data for spark advance from 0-10 degrees, 10-20 degrees, 20-30 degrees, and so on...then copy/paste the logged torque values into the virtual torque tables based on whichever spark (or MAP) filter you used? Does that make sense, is it correct? i suppose I could just go test it to see...I just hate experimenting without a dyno on a car i don't own.

  2. #22
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    That's pretty much it, but I narrow it down a little more to a +/-5 of the corresponding spark table... It doesn't have to be 100% accurate on a 4th gen - as long as it's over and not under by 50 to 100 your OK... Under is where you really start having problems...
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    That's pretty much it, but I narrow it down a little more to a +/-5 of the corresponding spark table... It doesn't have to be 100% accurate on a 4th gen - as long as it's over and not under by 50 to 100 your OK... Under is where you really start having problems...
    Outstanding. That sounds way less intimidating than I initially suspected.

  4. #24
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    Just keep in mind because I don't think I clarified this - that your trying to dial this in to "actual" engine torque, so delivered to the tires + drivetrain loss...
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    ~Greg Huggins~
    Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
    Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    This is how I've got my scanner setup for them - shows timing on lefthand side for reference and then delivered tq on righthand side
    Am I seeing this wrong, or in this screen shot is baro 90kPa? I see 18psi but 214 kPa, are you at the top off the mountain in Denver?

    And you said this car is getting sprayed on 20.5 degrees of timing on top of whatever boost?

    And the engine tq model says its around 1700 ft lbs? Is that supposed to be accurate data or?
    Factory Stock 97 SS M6 13.51 @ 104.3 mph
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    This is how I've got my scanner setup for them - shows timing on lefthand side for reference and then delivered tq on righthand side
    You mind helping with the formula we need to filter the spark.

  7. #27
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    Does this affect manual cars?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aharonc View Post
    Does this affect manual cars?
    Not as much... but still attempt to make it accurate

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by aharonc View Post
    Does this affect manual cars?
    I was wondering this as well...mine is an M6 and it runs/drives fine, but if I can improve the tune I'm all for it

  10. #30
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    ive noticed the factory idle torque areas are around a positive/negative value in the virtual table but when u have a camshaft and map shifts upto the 60kpa area u are always in a positive value area so i would think that correcting that so its more like where factory sits would make all the idle corrections better ? ill be testing it out when new engine goes in being manual i feel all the spark adjustments if they are too aggressive and lighter flywheel dosnt help

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrannySShifting View Post
    Am I seeing this wrong, or in this screen shot is baro 90kPa? I see 18psi but 214 kPa, are you at the top off the mountain in Denver?
    Where I live in Colorado my barometric pressure is typically only 75 kPa! I need 25 kPa of boost just to get back to sea level.