VVT Cam Settings with Limiters

[jchambers]

Working to understand the Dodge cam functions, particularly when changing camshafts. Currently working with a 2013 Challenger RT with 5.7L A5 and Comp 274 camshaft with limiters. It looks like the limiters restrict movement to about half the factory range. So when I look at the camshaft functions (focus for now on the intake), the OEM had a VVT range of about 47-deg (145.5-98.5) with a park position (Int CL?) of 120-deg and a max advance all the way down to 85-deg from CL. Assuming that this Max Phase is more of an error threshold and the normal VVT occurs between the 145.5 and 98.5 positions.

(1) Does the Lock-pin position represent INT CL? Is so is this now 113-ish
(2) With the limiters does the Max/Min become something more like 125-ish/100-ish (+/- 12 from the 113)?
(3) In all of the tables should the VVT values be modified to be within this 125 to 100-ish range then?
(4) In the PT base should Max/Min should these be modified to be within half of that 47-deg range of motion?

I didn't look too closely at the phase design when installing the limiters to check the physical relationship between the cam and the limiter. Guess I just assumed it is limiting the range of motion equally either side of a reference position, being the intake CL.

Cam Data:

274/287 at .006
226/234 at .050
LSA 116
Int CL 113

Dodge Cam Functions.JPG

Thanks.

[GFB Performance]

The PCM can only retard the cam from its installed ICL and with the limiter installed you are correct in it moving only 14*. A clock spring keeps the cam advanced and the PCM uses oil pressure to retard it. That cam is really too big for a 5.7 and you'll probably find the most power keeping it fully advanced through the full rpm range. Lets us know how it turns out

[chizzle1]

you can change the value of the rpm tables to get control of the VVT function past 5700 RPMs.
I did this after I installed the 392A6 cam as it was defaulting too far advanced after 5700.
I don't remember the value I used, but I multiplied the cells until they ended at 6700.

And unless the design has changed since 2010, only the exhaust timing table needs to be modified.

[jchambers]

you can change the value of the rpm tables to get control of the VVT function past 5700 RPMs.
I did this after I installed the 392A6 cam as it was defaulting too far advanced after 5700.
I don't remember the value I used, but I multiplied the cells until they ended at 6700.

And unless the design has changed since 2010, only the exhaust timing table needs to be modified.

Nice to know. Thanks.

[Blue Bee]

And unless the design has changed since 2010, only the exhaust timing table needs to be modified.

Correct, in the tune for a Hemi since it only has one cam, it's the "Exh cam 1 Phaser" that's enabled.

[RickyP]

I am running a 2010 5.7 and I am trying to figure out how to advance and retard the camshaft for lower and higher ranges. any help?

thanks

[RickyP]

I am running a 2010 5.7 and I am trying to figure out how to advance and retard the camshaft for lower and higher ranges. any help? I do not have the same editing options as above


thanks

[MarkTucker]

First make sure you are in Advanced under Edit>View>Advanced.

Then you will be able to see all of your VVT tables under Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft.

[chizzle1]

I am running a 2010 5.7 and I am trying to figure out how to advance and retard the camshaft for lower and higher ranges. any help? I do not have the same editing options as above


thanks

^ What Mark stated.
Also check with HP tuners to ensure you have the latest version.
Initially I was unable to monitor the cam position, but they had beta out within a few days that resolved my issues.

Also do the math: you can damage your engine if you go too far off factory specs and get piston to valve interference issues.

[RickyP]

^ What Mark stated.
Also check with HP tuners to ensure you have the latest version.
Initially I was unable to monitor the cam position, but they had beta out within a few days that resolved my issues.

Also do the math: you can damage your engine if you go too far off factory specs and get piston to valve interference issues.

I had to get a newer version of HP but I can log my cam settings. Here are my cam specs if anyone can help with some info on getting it dialed in.

MM-VVT-212-224
HEMI VVT cam grind
.589-I .586-E(1.65rr)
LL-.357I .355E
@50 212I 224E
ADV 260I 276E
LSA - 114.5
ICL - 105

I also have the eagle heads that have been ported to 6.1 intake and exhaust. bigger valves, Springs, 1 7/8 - 3" LT headers, 2.5" exhaust, cam phase limiter, CAI, the rest is Pretty much stock.
I can send logs and tune file if helps

Thanks
RickyP

[RickyP]

^ What Mark stated.
Also check with HP tuners to ensure you have the latest version.
Initially I was unable to monitor the cam position, but they had beta out within a few days that resolved my issues.

Also do the math: you can damage your engine if you go too far off factory specs and get piston to valve interference issues.

Doesn't the phase limiter prevent valve clearance issues? I still won't messed with the setting until I under stand things better.

[Hemituna]

Yep, that is what the limiter is for.

Doesn't the phase limiter prevent valve clearance issues? I still won't messed with the setting until I under stand things better.

Guessing that cam will like to be run fairly advanced in the VVT settings.
I'd use the numbers that it shows at idle (full advance) everywhere and then work from there.

[GFB Performance]

The software settings can not override the mechanical limits of the phaser. "If" the cam was installed and degreed to verify there isn't any PTV issues at full advance and retard then you can make any tune changes you want without crashing the valves. I've seen several post where people were afraid to change cam timing on a completely stock setup. You can not crash the valves on a stock setup no matter what you put cam timing at as it's physically impossible. Obviously any and all aftermarket cams should be degreed when installed and PTV clearance verified but from my experience that seldom happens.

[Brycek]

Bumping because I'm wondering the same as the OP. There is info in here but no exact answers to the questions. What is LOCKPIN? I can see that there are actually only a few tables it uses for cam actuation. (exhaust cam only and not using MAX TIP table). But i have the phaser limiter in and want to get all the tables reflecting that. as of now my Exhaust cam angle stays at 134* pretty much the whole time. thanks everyone.

[[email protected]]

Bumping because I'm wondering the same as the OP. There is info in here but no exact answers to the questions. What is LOCKPIN? I can see that there are actually only a few tables it uses for cam actuation. (exhaust cam only and not using MAX TIP table). But i have the phaser limiter in and want to get all the tables reflecting that. as of now my Exhaust cam angle stays at 134* pretty much the whole time. thanks everyone.

If your Exh Cam Angle is at 134 the entire time then you have a locker and not a limiter (assuming that you did not modify any cam tables).
Use the "WOT VVT LOCKPIN" timing table for WOT timing and the "Part Throttle VVT Lockpin" table for PT spark.

[Brycek]

i have not changed any cam tables yet. I have the comp cams limiter installed. at startup It sits at 116* and then it will "switch" to 134* at some point and stay there for the rest of the time the car is on. I was assuming that it is stuck at the 134 because it is being mechanically limited? maybe I'm reading the wrong pid i'll have to check that because the cam angle does not reflect what I'm seeing in the WOT desired angle. And I don't know what the tables are representing. 134* from what? In a ford it would be in relationship to TDC but not sure on this?

I am using the WOT vvt lockpin table for my WOT timing. but there is also a WOT timing base? Does this mean it uses the base until the cam is anywhere above the 120* "lockpin" and then it uses lock pin tables?

[bcspahnrt]

Yep, that is what the limiter is for.



Guessing that cam will like to be run fairly advanced in the VVT settings.
I'd use the numbers that it shows at idle (full advance) everywhere and then work from there.

Would that be the same for this cam as well?
MM-HPT-PLUS
@106.0ICL
DURATION @ .050 214 224
LOBE LIFT .3580 .3550
LOBE SEPARATION 112
The book tells you to start at 109 up to 4000 then 112 at bottom. Right now I have stock settings for all the VVT settings and it feels little sluggish till 4000rpm then you feel it pull.

[james1595]

Would that be the same for this cam as well?
MM-HPT-PLUS
@106.0ICL
DURATION @ .050 214 224
LOBE LIFT .3580 .3550
LOBE SEPARATION 112
The book tells you to start at 109 up to 4000 then 112 at bottom. Right now I have stock settings for all the VVT settings and it feels little sluggish till 4000rpm then you feel it pull.

[bcspahnrt]

In the hp tuners book it tells you if you change cam to start at 109 in the wot intake settings and then 112 after 4000 rims then interpolate between horizontal from 4000rpm all the way to 570p rpm and start from there. Then add 1 deg to all cells and stop if you feel a lose in power. I have same cam as you and I was hoping that someone who had same cam and did the test knew what numbers would be good to start at.

[j3ffjr]

Is there a good base to start at for dealing with the desired angle table? The cam I'm using is an Comp Cams HRT stage 2 supercharger cam. Currently the build is N/A

287/299 advertised duration
229/241 at .050
LSA 117

I've been trying to get the tables somewhat close, when the motor temp is above 150 I don't get any issues and I can see the OCV operating correctly. If the motor is cold, I get a code for the circuit is open due to the cam not being able to be in the desired position. I have a limiter installed and I noticed that the cam movement was reading between 134-116. For the Exhaust min, would that be set to 116 and the exhaust max to 134?