5.7 Hemi with a 6.4 Cam

[AlvinB]

Hello. I am new here. I am currently learning everything I can about tuning a Hemi. I have a 2013 Challenger Rt with an automatic transmission. I need some help from somebody that could tell me everything that I should look into changing to my stock tune in order to make the 6.4 cam work better. The cam runs pretty okay with the stock tune. I have been driving the car for a while now since the swap. Please help. what are some things I could take from a 6.4 stock tune and also things I need to change myself.

Car has 6.4 cam non mds, 6.4 valve springs, BBK shorty headers and a Cold air intake.

THANKS.

[Party340]

I just looked at stock 5.7 VVT tables and 6.4 VVT tables and they look very similar if you factor in the 10-degree difference on the exhaust at full advance (125 vs 135) so I probably would not mess with those at least in the upper rpm range. You might pick up some bottom end by advancing the cam in the lower rpm range. Do you have a wideband?

[white1]

I recently tuned a 6 speed 5.7 with the 6.4 cam. There wasn't much to it. It showed up to the shop on the stock 5.7 tune running fine. Just did a basic tune and dialed everything else in as I would if it had a 5.7 cam and all was good. I was pretty impressed with the power. I wasn't expecting that

[AlvinB]

I recently tuned a 6 speed 5.7 with the 6.4 cam. There wasn't much to it. It showed up to the shop on the stock 5.7 tune running fine. Just did a basic tune and dialed everything else in as I would if it had a 5.7 cam and all was good. I was pretty impressed with the power. I wasn't expecting that

Yeah Im thinking on just putting similar settings for the idle and rpm from the 6.4 stock tune aswell as similar vvt settings. Do I need to change anything with spark or fuel related stuff? as of now i have just been touching idle , rpm and vvt. Thanks

[f.creek-ranch]

045FFECD-2236-4282-BEDF-A3ADDC2C3C98.png062B52B7-2EE7-466D-88BD-CDB41673B727.png

Nobody will or can tell you the perfect setting, you must use a dyno.

Im playing around 5 degrees but havent felt any difference.

Advance it at part throttle in the mid range to get better response.

[AlvinB]

I recently tuned a 6 speed 5.7 with the 6.4 cam. There wasn't much to it. It showed up to the shop on the stock 5.7 tune running fine. Just did a basic tune and dialed everything else in as I would if it had a 5.7 cam and all was good. I was pretty impressed with the power. I wasn't expecting that

any chance you could share it to compare to my final tune? trying to not make any mistakes before flashing it.

[f.creek-ranch]

motor57_64_test5.hpttranny6.hpt

Feel free...on your own risk.

I think its a similar hardware setup.

[AlvinB]

motor57_64_test5.hpttranny6.hpt

Feel free...on your own risk.

I think its a similar hardware setup.

is there a particular reason why you didn't adjust vvt tables and change cam angles to the 6.4 ones? I'm asking because I'm a bit confused.

[GHuggins]

Just food for thought. You might want to look at a cop cars calibration for the cam settings then add a little bit of timing in - you know since the cams are so similar AND just for reference the "normal" exhaust table still needs adjusting to optimize.

[AlvinB]

Just food for thought. You might want to look at a cop cars calibration for the cam settings then add a little bit of timing in - you know since the cams are so similar AND just for reference the "normal" exhaust table still needs adjusting to optimize.

I'll definitely look into that. So as of right now I have only made a couple of changes to the idle rpm and vvt settings for the cam. I understand maybe airflow and exhaust table might still need to be adjusted. Fuel and spark not sure If they do need any adjusting since the 6.4 cam does runs okay on the 5.7 stock tune. I'll just have to see that base on logging it and see how it runs. Attached is my stock file with the changes I have done. There's also a stock 6.4 tune with auto trans and my 5.7 stock tune. If any of you got any time, I'd really appreciate any advice based on what I have done.

[Party340]

I just looked at your tune (challenger tune 5th with Airflwo VVT tunes). You will never hit those 131 and 129 degree targets on the wot exhaust table because the max advance with a 5.7 tune is 125. To match the settings from a 6.4 you need to subtract 10 degrees in all cells. For example if the 6.4 cam is 129 degrees at 2500 rpms you would need to set your table at 119 degrees at 2500 rpm. 135 degrees is the zero for the 6.4 and 125 is the zero for the 5.7. In the above example the cam is retarded 6 degrees from the zero on the cam phaser. As I mentioned in a previous post the stock 5.7 settings are almost identical to the 6.4 settings.

[AlvinB]

I just looked at your tune (challenger tune 5th with Airflwo VVT tunes). You will never hit those 131 and 129 degree targets on the wot exhaust table because the max advance with a 5.7 tune is 125. To match the settings from a 6.4 you need to subtract 10 degrees in all cells. For example if the 6.4 cam is 129 degrees at 2500 rpms you would need to set your table at 119 degrees at 2500 rpm. 135 degrees is the zero for the 6.4 and 125 is the zero for the 5.7. In the above example the cam is retarded 6 degrees from the zero on the cam phaser. As I mentioned in a previous post the stock 5.7 settings are almost identical to the 6.4 settings.

I do understand you now. Thank you for clarifying that. I just looked at it and it makes sense. In that case there's no point in me copying the rpm ranges over and inputting the angles minus the 10 degrees into my tune since its basically almost identical tables. I might look into maybe just advancing the low rpms angles in the 5.7 stock tables like you mentioned instead. Perhaps advance them by 2 degrees at a time until I hit the perfect spot. Just the ones before 2500rpm. You obviously got more experience doing this than me. Could you perhaps mention some other stuff I should look into to make it reach the best settings for my setup. I really appreciate the info. I'm new to all this but been learning a lot from you all. Thanks. Any videos suggestions of tuners explaining stuff that I should know would be cool as well.

My setup: CAI, Shorty headers, 6.4 cam non mds with 6.4 springs.

[f.creek-ranch]

4EFE738E-61CD-4E80-8C6C-CDB848DBC613.png

EE491728-98B7-4BFB-B6E1-CEA002B8BEB8.png


sorry, wrong pictures

[f.creek-ranch]

I just looked at your tune (challenger tune 5th with Airflwo VVT tunes). You will never hit those 131 and 129 degree targets on the wot exhaust table because the max advance with a 5.7 tune is 125. To match the settings from a 6.4 you need to subtract 10 degrees in all cells. For example if the 6.4 cam is 129 degrees at 2500 rpms you would need to set your table at 119 degrees at 2500 rpm. 135 degrees is the zero for the 6.4 and 125 is the zero for the 5.7. In the above example the cam is retarded 6 degrees from the zero on the cam phaser. As I mentioned in a previous post the stock 5.7 settings are almost identical to the 6.4 settings.

...my fault
I substracted only 5 degrees by using 120 - 115 lsa without thinking of full advance. Cam specs and VVT confusing me.

[f.creek-ranch]

So the only way to get max advance or retard numbers is to log cam position ?

[Homer]

I do understand you now. Thank you for clarifying that. I just looked at it and it makes sense. In that case there's no point in me copying the rpm ranges over and inputting the angles minus the 10 degrees into my tune since its basically almost identical tables. I might look into maybe just advancing the low rpms angles in the 5.7 stock tables like you mentioned instead. Perhaps advance them by 2 degrees at a time until I hit the perfect spot. Just the ones before 2500rpm. You obviously got more experience doing this than me. Could you perhaps mention some other stuff I should look into to make it reach the best settings for my setup. I really appreciate the info. I'm new to all this but been learning a lot from you all. Thanks. Any videos suggestions of tuners explaining stuff that I should know would be cool as well.

My setup: CAI, Shorty headers, 6.4 cam non mds with 6.4 springs.

FWIW there was an old thread that explained cam differences.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-6-2-cam/page2

BTW here are a collection of links that you might find useful as well.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post525502

[f.creek-ranch]

Thanks, Ive red a lot the last days.
But I found nothing specially from Dodge who will explain this.
And there are a lot of different numbers of the 392 max advancing in the web. 130-138 are the most.
So I realize that the lockpin isnt max advance, only a security position.
If the 5.7 has 115 LSA and max is 125 there is 10? advance
The 6.4 has 120 LSA and max adv is 135 = 15? advance
The lockpin is the same...120..so no advance in lockpin for 6.4 and 5? for 5.7 ?
Or is this totally wrong and I should go back to my buisness?

For my 5.7 SC with 6.4 cam I will try the stock 6.4 cam values. I think this will work, using the stock 6.4 numbers and substract 10? for all values.

[AlvinB]

Thanks, Ive red a lot the last days.
But I found nothing specially from Dodge who will explain this.
And there are a lot of different numbers of the 392 max advancing in the web. 130-138 are the most.
So I realize that the lockpin isnt max advance, only a security position.
If the 5.7 has 115 LSA and max is 125 there is 10? advance
The 6.4 has 120 LSA and max adv is 135 = 15? advance
The lockpin is the same...120..so no advance in lockpin for 6.4 and 5? for 5.7 ?
Or is this totally wrong and I should go back to my buisness?

For my 5.7 SC with 6.4 cam I will try the stock 6.4 cam values. I think this will work, using the stock 6.4 numbers and substract 10? for all values.

I think you and me are on the same page. I Am just as confused. As of now I been told to either take the stock 5.7 vvt tables and advance the timing in the mid rpms to get the best out of it since copying the 6.4 table and subtracting the 10 degrees difference would be almost identical to the 5.7 stock vvt. Please let me know what you choose to do and why. Im sure a lot of people will benefit from this thread.

[f.creek-ranch]

I have copied the 6.4 tables and substract because of wider aircharge and rpm band wich fits better to extendend Rpm range and SC.
I report when have logged provided my lumbago is gone...

[AlvinB]

I have copied the 6.4 tables and substract because of wider aircharge and rpm band wich fits better to extendend Rpm range and SC.
I report when have logged provided my lumbago is gone...

I know you have shared your file previously but would you mind sharing it now with the changes. Just so I can compare it to the old one and see what you have changed.