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Thread: E39 ECM running standalone on LDK | having trouble getting it running

  1. #1

    E39 ECM running standalone on LDK | having trouble getting it running

    Gents,
    I've built a kit car with an LDK long block that I'm trying to get running. I purchased the wiring harness and ECM from Alfafab Industries. In addition I've made some modifications to the engine which could be significant. Here are the main ones:

    - Throttle body: Using an LHU throttle body
    - MAF: Blow through mounted after the intercooler
    - Oil pressure sensor: Nothing connected to the ECM (aftermarket sensor and gauge)
    - Turbo/Exhaus-mani: Modified stock manifold to mount GTX2860R
    - BOV: Vented to atmosphere pre-intercooler

    I've attached a few log files from the engine cranking and the tune file. From what I can tell there is at least an issue with the MAP which I believe is just that the wrong sensor type is selected in the tune. I would appreciate it if someone could confirm this. I also wonder if the throttle is correct since I'm not seeing 0-100% pedal position. This also makes me question the rest of the actuator sensor calibration. Can you think of anything I need to check? What about the fuel injectors?

    Thanks!
    Daniel
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  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    Being that this is a swap vehicle you may likely have to disable the VATS system under the OS tab, then write entire with those disabled. My knowledge on the platform is limited but a few random questions that may be helpful.

    Are you running the 1 bar MAP sensor or is there a GM 2 bar map installed?

    I see no o2 sensor data from the logs either, as those being used?

    And it kind of puzzles me that whoever send you that computer you disable every DTC's in the calibration that you may want to use. All o2 sensor codes, all MAF codes etc etc
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  3. #3
    I'm using the factor MAP sensor. I assume this would be the 1bar? I do have an O2 sensor hooked up (one, no cat). For sure I need that to work.

    Good catch on the DTC's, I'll take a look.

    What is VATS? Do I need to be connected to the vehicle to adjust it? When I click on the OS tab it looks blank.

    Daniel

  4. #4
    Vehicle Anti Theft System. It's a build in immobiliser (coded keys + BCM) that you need to switch of in a stand-alone application like your engine swap project car.
    It's somewhere in the HPT E39 parameters, so load current tune in HPT, check/adjust that VATS parameter and save the tune back into the ecu.

  5. #5
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    If nothing shows in the OS tab, click edit, view, advanced to see all tables.

    Disable both VATS and write entire.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  6. #6
    Thanks guys, I was able to disable the VATS patches. I have to believe that my MAP sensor calibration is wrong. If I were to guess it would be that the numbers in my cal were for a 3bar and I have a 1bar. Does anyone know what the linear and offset numbers should be for a 1bar MAP sensor?

    Daniel

  7. #7
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    128.13/-0.31 is a number a 1 bar sensor would use. Most GM 2 bar sensors are 200/10.33 and 3 BAR sensors are 305/10.33 with some being different if it was from like a ZR1 corvette.

    My 2012 truck is 128.20/0.30 for a 1 bar map. My knowledge on the correct settings for those computer isn't helping but those numbers are correct for some 1 bar map sensors.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  8. #8
    Thanks. After further thought it's freaking impossible that I have a 1bar map sensor (factory sensor on a turbo car will not come with something that maxes at atmospheric pressure). However, it appears AFI did not update the calibration vs. whatever vehicle they got this PCM from (assume it's a 2012 equinox). What is more bizarre is that the MAP sensor in the intake manifold is different than a typical LNF unit.

    LNF: 12643955
    LDK: 12612110

    Does anyone know the calibration for the LDK sensor? My best guess is this is a 3bar sensor as that would roughly triple the pressure I'm seeing today which would make sense.

    Daniel

  9. #9
    I think I've convinced myself that those two MAP sensors are effectively equivalent, but I haven't found clear documentation as to what they are. I guess I'll try the different calibration parameters to see which makes sense.

    Daniel

  10. #10
    I think my tune was not done remotely close to properly. They didn't even bother to make it for 2L (still shows 0.59859L/cyl).

    Does anyone have a base cal that works which I could start from?

    Daniel

  11. #11
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    look through the repository and pick something similar to your build. You could pick something like a 2013 turbo regal, those should be LHU/LDK engines i think.
    I'll look through your file this evening, and if you can't find a datafile in the repository i could post my 2013 regal file .

    Also, not sure if stock sensor is 2, 2.5, or 3 bar sensor, but can't be 1 bar, that would only work on NA engines. MAP sensors read in absolute, so 1 bar would only read absolute 0 to ambient, and you need something that reads boost. i'll pull the stock coefficients off my regal this evening.

    But most importantly, looks like an awesome build, could you share more pics or a build thread somewhere?

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    stock should be 2.5 bar. the map sensors on these typically cap out at 23.5 psi (2.5 bar)
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  13. #13
    Thanks guys, do you know what the calibration is for the 2.5bar MAP sensor?

    It may end up being a moot point as Alfa Fab asked me to send the PCM back to them so they could update the OS. Apparently this requires a GM tool. Sooooo, with any luck this will give them the opportunity to get it right. They have been supportive, but man have they not made this easy.

    Daniel

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TurboCobalt View Post
    look through the repository and pick something similar to your build. You could pick something like a 2013 turbo regal, those should be LHU/LDK engines i think.
    I'll look through your file this evening, and if you can't find a datafile in the repository i could post my 2013 regal file .

    Also, not sure if stock sensor is 2, 2.5, or 3 bar sensor, but can't be 1 bar, that would only work on NA engines. MAP sensors read in absolute, so 1 bar would only read absolute 0 to ambient, and you need something that reads boost. i'll pull the stock coefficients off my regal this evening.

    But most importantly, looks like an awesome build, could you share more pics or a build thread somewhere?
    I'm not much for making a great build thread, but here is the link to what I posted: http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.p...n-with-the-new.

    Daniel

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    the gm sensor #12612110 is an acdelco unit which references back to the 2010 GMC Savana. It is possible that the sensor was used as a carry over part for cost of production reasons.
    http://www.wholesalegmpartsonline.com/products/SENSOR-Computer-Control-Sensors/2670176/12612110.html

    Sensor data from the Savana shows: linear= 128.2 kpa and offset of -0.3 kpa

    problem here is the sensor data is equivalent to a full range of 18.5 psi assuming the sensor started reading at 0 psi which it doesnt. roughly 14.7 psi is reserved for the use of reading vacuum which leaves you with only 3.8 psi of readable boost. this sensor is only capable of 1 bar.


    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  16. #16
    Thanks for digging up that information. I don't want to say that's bad info, but I do retain some skepticism. With the 1 bar calibration I was recording 5.8psi with the engine off. I tried the 2bar and 3bar calibrations and found them to be somewhat predictable (~10psi and ~15psi respectively). This makes me believe that it's really a 2.5 or 2.7bar sensor. Of course it's possible the sensor is dead, but it did come on a brand new LDK long block so I'm inclined to believe that's not the case. Anyway, I also have a 9k mile LNF sensor so I can always give it a try as well.

    At the moment I'm paused while I wait for AFI to do their work.

    Daniel

  17. #17
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    could you please read the part number on the actual MAP / TIAP sensors you have mounted on the car.
    I just looked up the MAP sensor on a 2013 regal turbo (LHU engine) and it should be 12643955, not sure where you got the other part number.
    for the same 2013 regal turbo (LHU) the pre-throttle body pressure and temp sensor (i think its called the TIAP sensor?) is 12644807. i kind of expect these to be 3 bar sensors, which makes sense from what you said.

    2010 cobalt SS (LNF) MAP=12592016, TIAP=12592017 ( i know these are 2.5 bar)

    like you said, kind of a moot point, sounds like you're getting the OS flashed to something more appropriate for your engine.

  18. #18
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    as TC mentioned the sensor number you gave us is likely an intake position map sensor. What are the numbers from the sensor residing in the charge pipe? (Thats the location TC is mentioning as TIAP)
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  19. #19
    I have no TIAP sensor. The MAP sensor p/n's I gave before are the ones I have. The 126... sensor is the one that came in the intake manifold that came with the engine from ZZP (LKD). The other one came in an LNF 9k mi part out (bought a bunch of misc. parts to aid in the build). I'm running the LHU throttle body simply because that's what AFI's harness uses. Anyway, let's see what AFI comes back with.

    Thanks again guys,
    Daniel

  20. #20
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    To the best of my knowledge you need a TIAP sensor. it is used for boost control (not the MAP, yes, i'm certain of this). You also need the TIAP for the control system to manage the pressure drop across the throttle blade to control air flow. I'm not sure but i also think it's used for diagnostic purposes to rationalize air flow/pressures in the entire system. It may be possible to hack together a calibration that makes it run without the TIAP, however my opinion is that it would be a lot more difficult than just adding a diap.

    Both part numbers you stated start with 126..., i think you should use 12643955 as the map sensor, use the 3 bar calibrations with it. And as mentioned above, personally i would install a TIAP sensor, the one LDK, LHU, LTG all come with is 12644807.

    Hope this helps, if I said anything wrong here i hope cobaltssoverbooster or someone else will correct me.
    Last edited by TurboCobalt; 08-24-2017 at 07:54 AM.