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Thread: 6r80 transmissions holding up with transbrake?

  1. #41
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    They did, however one of his earlier versions that didn't use the L/R clutch and doesn't need calibration changes.

    I've since used the version that he posted above with a pair of relays and can testify that with the L/R release value at -2.5 it works and holds great.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbrooks98 View Post
    Thanks, I wasn't sure how they did their wiring. I assumed they copied Kdanner.
    Bascially the history on 6R80 transbrakes started with a certain peddler of turbo parts claiming he had created one in Dec 2013 that required no calibration changes and that people would be required to buy his turbo parts in order to get one. Note that his unit has still never been for sale, now 4 and half years later. Anyway, I decided that if it could be done then I could do it too.

    After a couple of days working with Brett Thruber's car, I had something working. I published the schematics from day one so that no one would ever have to pay. I watermarked my name on it because I know how dishonest this industry generally is. I'm still amazed that these products were able to be successfully sold considering the very few dollars it takes to get the relays and build it yourself from the schematic. Every unit I have ever seen for sale copies my original schematic. It was far from perfect but better than nothing.

    Then later, Sep 2014, I figured out the calibration which made it possible to use the L/R clutch instead of the direct. I initially tested that on a TVS car and when I was able to put it on the wood with no 2 step and the car didn't budge, I knew I had a winner. By this point some imitators had already started selling relays/wiring that were a copy of the earlier circuit. So while I still released the schematic immediately, I did not reveal the calibration needed to anyone except those who helped with information which made this newer circuit viable. This thread was the first time I revealed any of that publicly. I figure enough time has now passed. Seven second passes with sixties in the teens have been made with it, so I think it is working out pretty well.
    Last edited by kdanner; 06-11-2018 at 04:47 AM.

  3. #43
    Advanced Tuner bbrooks98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdanner View Post
    Bascially the history on 6R80 transbrakes started with a certain peddler of turbo parts claiming he had created one in Dec 2013 that required no calibration changes and that people would be required to buy his turbo parts in order to get one. Note that his unit has still never been for sale, now 4 and half years later. Anyway, I decided that if it could be done then I could do it too.

    After a couple of days working with Brett Thruber's car, I had something working. I published the schematics from day one so that no one would ever have to pay. I watermarked my name on it because I know how dishonest this industry generally is. I'm still amazed that these products were able to be successfully sold considering the very few dollars it takes to get the relays and build it yourself from the schematic. Every unit I have ever seen for sale copies my original schematic. It was far from perfect but better than nothing.

    Then later, Sep 2014, I figured out the calibration which made it possible to use the L/R clutch instead of the direct. I initially tested that on a TVS car and when I was able to put it on the wood with no 2 step and the car didn't budge, I knew I had a winner. By this point some imitators had already started selling relays/wiring that were a copy of the earlier circuit. So while I still released the schematic immediately, I did not reveal the calibration needed to anyone except those who helped with information which made this newer circuit viable. This thread was the first time I revealed any of that publicly. I figure enough time has now passed. Seven second passes with sixties in the teens have been made with it, so I think it is working out pretty well.
    '


    Thanks for the info. Looks like i'm gonna end up having to wire it myself to the L/R clutch. I hate wiring...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdanner View Post
    The OWC holds to give you the 1st gear ratio, LR clutch only gives you engine braking. Stock calibration releases the LR at 2.5MPH when in drive range. The reason I change that to negative MPH in calibration is due to some solenoids being inverse from others, it makes the LR already off at 0 MPH which puts the solenoid in the proper condition for when the transbrake relays swap the circuits. This applies both the LR and INT clutches which are the only 2 hold clutches in the trans, meaning the steels are lugged into the case, not inside a drum. When the transbrake releases the only thing that is happening is the LR and INT are releasing. So, only difference from stock regarding the LR clutch is that it releases immediately instead of at 2.5 MPH, an almost imperceptible change.

    Kdanner. I dont see "Low/Reverse Max VSS" option on the S550 calibration, how do you get this to work on these cars?

  5. #45
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    Not to derail the thread but what's a safe max temp, and normal operating temps for the 6R80? I see 180F+ and start getting nervous because that was hot for my Lightning which stood around 160-170 unless I ran it hard.

  6. #46
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbolt22 View Post
    Not to derail the thread but what's a safe max temp, and normal operating temps for the 6R80? I see 180F+ and start getting nervous because that was hot for my Lightning which stood around 160-170 unless I ran it hard.
    I know it isn't the 6R80, but the 6F55 at operational temperature runs at a minimum of 202F on the Fusion Sport and heats up to over 210F on any of the vehicles that use it (Explorer Sport, Taurus SHO, Police Interceptors, etc...) I say a min of 202F because it uses engine coolant to help regulate the temperature as well as an external oil-to-air exchanger. These newer transmissions that use Mercon LV seem to want the fluid to be as thin as possible and to operate at a higher temperature, presumably for less friction and easier to pump fluid.

  7. #47
    Advanced Tuner veeefour's Avatar
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    LV means low viscosity, it's now SLV for 10R80 - super low viscosity. Check the 2018 Mustang tune and see yourself how much temp is allowed for this trans - crazy.
    Last edited by veeefour; 06-21-2018 at 10:24 AM.

  8. #48
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    So I've found that setting an N2MB 2 step while on the brake at 3200 rpm or lower results in coil DTCs and Open Loop - Injector Cut as a fuel source along with 2 dead cylinders for around 30 seconds after which everything is normal. Disabling the codes didn't help but digging through Ford's OBD Documentation shows a continuous coil test that runs between 200-3200 rpm. I couldn't find anything defined in HPTuners related to this but I did find it in SCT Advantage under "Dwell - Coil" settings. I set it to 2000 and it fixed any type of limp mode or injector cut. Just info, in case anyone uses the N2MB box and runs into the same issue.

    coil test.jpg

  9. #49
    Thanks for the advice. I am thinking about selling my MSD 2step and trying the N2B to clean up the wiring in the engine bay.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdanner View Post
    Bascially the history on 6R80 transbrakes started with a certain peddler of turbo parts claiming he had created one in Dec 2013 that required no calibration changes and that people would be required to buy his turbo parts in order to get one. Note that his unit has still never been for sale, now 4 and half years later. Anyway, I decided that if it could be done then I could do it too.

    After a couple of days working with Brett Thruber's car, I had something working. I published the schematics from day one so that no one would ever have to pay. I watermarked my name on it because I know how dishonest this industry generally is. I'm still amazed that these products were able to be successfully sold considering the very few dollars it takes to get the relays and build it yourself from the schematic. Every unit I have ever seen for sale copies my original schematic. It was far from perfect but better than nothing.

    Then later, Sep 2014, I figured out the calibration which made it possible to use the L/R clutch instead of the direct. I initially tested that on a TVS car and when I was able to put it on the wood with no 2 step and the car didn't budge, I knew I had a winner. By this point some imitators had already started selling relays/wiring that were a copy of the earlier circuit. So while I still released the schematic immediately, I did not reveal the calibration needed to anyone except those who helped with information which made this newer circuit viable. This thread was the first time I revealed any of that publicly. I figure enough time has now passed. Seven second passes with sixties in the teens have been made with it, so I think it is working out pretty well.
    So what all needs changed in the tune to run this latest 2 relay brake is to change the lr value to neg 2.5? I've sent you a pm too.

  11. #51
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    So I picked up the relays and I looked in the strategy for the L/R max mph or vss. I can't find it anywhere in WYN4. Is this an 11/12 only thing? I looked in SCT as well and couldn't find it anywhere including trying the search function. Anyone help me out here? I'd really appreciate it.

  12. #52
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    Ok, so with help from Eric@HP, Brett@SCT, and especially Adam@core, I was able to set this up in the tune and het it all wired up. However, the results were far from satisfactory. It would hold up to 1/4 pedal, 2100 rpm, but anything more than that would net the trans completely releasing, like brake wasn't even applied. Going to try 3rd relay and see what happens. Stock trans and converter.

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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by veeefour View Post
    Unconditional unlock
    Is there something to change in the tune that can stop that from happening? That's exactly what it feels like is the computer is killing the power to those clutches.
    Last edited by nxcoupe; 07-06-2019 at 07:28 PM.

  15. #55
    Advanced Tuner veeefour's Avatar
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    Updated S550 definition has unconditional unlock parameters.You may be overheating as well as playing with TB is raising TT like crazy.

    unconditional unlock.jpg

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by veeefour View Post
    Updated S550 definition has unconditional unlock parameters.You may be overheating as well as playing with TB is raising TT like crazy.

    unconditional unlock.jpg
    Car had just been started, but I agree, this will raise the trans temp quickly from my experience with other auto trans brakes. I appreciate that screenshot, but I have a 14 WYN4 FSFD2, so mine is very different. I will search for anything that sounds like those parameters. If you have any info on the 14, I would greatly appreciate it. thanks.

  17. #57
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    So going to try this from a different angle. I have an msd 2 stwp for coyote on the shelf. I'm going to install it and set it to 2k, then tie its activation wire into the transbrake button and see if it is strictly rpm based or if it will still release when I go wot with it. Should know by friday. I don't know if anyone is following this, but I think it is a great idea and I've been doing what I can to make it work the way I want it to.

  18. #58
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    My 2014 DWP4 (FSFD2A5) has no issues with the 2 relay brake using the L/R circuit. I use the N2MB box and as I posted above, it would enter Fuel Source Open Loop Injector Cut when set to 3200 or below which I fixed with SCT. I've since added a few more simple components I picked up on Amazon to use as a bump box and that works great as well. I have no temp or undesired release issues at all. I would double check your wiring.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witt View Post
    My 2014 DWP4 (FSFD2A5) has no issues with the 2 relay brake using the L/R circuit. I use the N2MB box and as I posted above, it would enter Fuel Source Open Loop Injector Cut when set to 3200 or below which I fixed with SCT. I've since added a few more simple components I picked up on Amazon to use as a bump box and that works great as well. I have no temp or undesired release issues at all. I would double check your wiring.
    You're using a 2 step, correct? I was not, I am putting one on this evening and going to try that to see if it will allow me to stay flat footed on the brake. Wiring is correct, first thing I do is doubt myself when something doesn't work correctly, then move on after verifying it's correct. Thanks for the input! Would you share what you did for a bump box? I'm curious to hear how you went about it.
    Is that Open Loop Injector Cut when you set the spark test down below what rpm you were using the 2 step at? Thanks!

  20. #60
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    Yes, using an N2MB 2 step.

    For a bump box I found a diagram posted by a gentleman here.

    The injector cut would happen if I set the 2 step below the 3200rpm coil test range. By lowering the range down to 2000rpm with SCT I'm able to set the two step wherever I want.