how to make an e85 tune with no flex fuel sensor

[inspector4]

I have a 2017 Camaro ss with no modifications and I am wanting to tune it on just e85. I will have a dedicated tune for both 93 and e85. I have no flex fuel sensor so when I change the stoich to 9.756 and adjust my pe table my ltft go to like 20 plus with e85 in the car. I'm sure I'm missing something. this s my first time messing with hp tuners and tuning a gm car at that. so any advice or constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

[inspector4]

e85 second try.hpt

[5FDP]

Get a sensor, you'll never get 100% the same stoich value from pump to pump and if you mix in any 93 octane you will throw it off even worse. Having two tunes is just a waste of time, one tune file can do everything you need it to, provided you have the right equipment.

Unless you are only going to run E85 from a barrel with the content printed on the drum, you are just chasing your tail if you ask me.

[Higgs Boson]

I never got a non factory flex fuel vehicle to work as a virtual flex vehicle. I agree, get a sensor, it's 1,000,000 times better than virtual anyways.

[inspector4]

Thanks for the replies. Not the best news but it is what it is I suppose. So this leads me to my next question if i buy the sensor do i just find a factory flex fuel car/truck and copy the values to my tune and enable the sensor? i thought it was kinda odd that no one runs a e85 tune only with a gen 5 motor

[SultanHassanMasTuning]

changing the stoich will not automatically alter your fuel trims, you will need to compensate via VVE and MAF

[DSteck]

I can help you set it up if you purchase my kit.

[Higgs Boson]

changing the stoich will not automatically alter your fuel trims, you will need to compensate via VVE and MAF

That has always worked for me before the days of easy access sensor kits. The difference is OP is trying to get it to work as a virtual sensor and use a sliding stoich table. If you want to change the whole stoich table to match your fuel the fuel trims also line up as long as the rest of the tune is correct.

I used to swap tunes for E85 regularly.

[inspector4]

that was what i was trying to do but it is not as simple as one might make it seem.

[Higgs Boson]

that was what i was trying to do but it is not as simple as one might make it seem.

Who made enabling a virtual sensor on a non-flex fuel car seem easy? It isn't a matter of easy or difficult.

You don't have to mess with the virtual sensor tables if set up the whole tune for the fuel you want to run. That's the nice thing about the sensor, one tune that changes itself (output) for the fuel in the tank.

[SultanHassanMasTuning]

for those whom dont have sensor kits, how are you basing your new stoich if if the % is not something you can read

pumping E85 doesnt automatically shoot for 9.8 stoich

[Higgs Boson]

for those whom dont have sensor kits, how are you basing your new stoich if if the % is not something you can read

pumping E85 doesnt automatically shoot for 9.8 stoich

just set it so your fuel trims are the same as they were when you tuned it on E10 with a stoich value of 14.1

if you put in a full tank of E85 and 9.76 stoich table and your trims settle in at +10 when you had it at -4 then you can just adjust your stoich value up a little bit and it will fall into place.

changing your fuel does not change your airflow model so one should not adjust (or need to adjust) MAF or VE to compensate.

it's not perfect or ideal, that's why the sensor kit is so good.

[JRoyPDX]

I can help you set it up if you purchase my kit.

No Gen5 truck kit on the site?

[DSteck]

No Gen5 truck kit on the site?

I'm pretty sure the ZL1 kit will fit the same. Just haven't had anybody try it.

[big_sapper]

No Gen5 truck kit on the site?

Guys with trucks are just plugging the factory sensor in the factory location using the appropriate fuel line. Check performancetrucks.net.

[turbomystic]

What is verdict on this, please.
The flex fuel sensor is good thing to have but can we tune by adjusting stoich as we normally do for Gen 4.
Example is my 2011 z06, I will simply adjust the stoich and use E85 ( from a drum).
We understand it may not be prefect but thats why we have lambda to work on for small adjustments
Why do we need to adjust VVE and MAF and is that unique to Gen5?

I planing to try E85 in CTSV V3 and also keen to confirm....

[Ben Charles]

You can just adjust stoich, just don’t blend the fuel unless you change stoich..
Basically just have the correct stoich for the fuel you plan to use and keep it consistent

[KonigWolf]

Here is a install guide for a E85 kit from the Camaro6 forums, at the bottom of the guide, the gentleman posted the baseline E85 tune.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469951

This is a list of what they change in the tune file.

EFI Tuning LLC

Tuning Tool: HP Tuners v3.2.x
Platform: 2016 Camaro SS

File: 2016_ss_flex_fuel_baseline.hpt

Changes:

*** required ***
- modified Engine -> Fuel -> General -> Air Fuel Ratio -> Stoich AFR-> Flex Fuel AFRs
- modified Engine -> Fuel -> Open & Closed Loop -> Flex Fuel -> Flex Fuel -> Enabled
- modified Engine -> Fuel -> Open & Closed Loop -> Flex Fuel -> Flex Fuel -> Fuel Sensor -> Sensor
- modified Engine Diag -> DTC's -> P0178 -> Flexible Fuel Sensor Circuit Low -> checked, Error Mode -> MIL on Second Error
- modified Engine Diag -> DTC's -> P0179 -> Flexible Fuel Sensor Circuit Low -> checked, Error Mode -> MIL on Second Error
- modified Fuel Sys -> Diagnostics -> Flex Fuel -> Sensor Diag -> Enable
****************

*** optional ***
- modified Engine -> Spark -> Advance -> Spark Correction -> AFR Correction -> Alcohol -> Gas table
- modified Engine -> Spark -> Advance -> Spark Correction -> IAT Spark -> Mult4 -> [1.00 1.00 0.80 0.50 0.20]
- modified Engine -> Spark -> Advance -> General -> Cranking/Start -> Cranking -> enhanced for Flex Fuel
- modified Engine -> Spark -> Advance -> General -> Cranking/Start -> Alcohol Adder -> timing added for Flex Fuel cold starts
****************

23. The attached zip file contains a baseline HPT file for reference on enabling the Flex Fuel sensor only. All performance related tables are stock in the baseline file. The changelog.txt file will indicate what is required and what is optional (but highly recommended). I have not looked at a 2017 file so I do not know if everything for the 2016 will translate over. The stock Flex Fuel tables are very good from a performance perspective so you will realize a high increase in torque across the board without actually doing a dyno tune. If you make it this far take the time after installation to monitor knock retard and adjust accordingly. Depending on ambient conditions you might need to lower timing in the higher g/cyl areas of the high octane spark tables. GM did not optimize the timing when you start getting past 0.92 g/cyl.

2016_ss_flex_fuel_baseline.hpt

[turbomystic]

You can just adjust stoich, just don’t blend the fuel unless you change stoich..
Basically just have the correct stoich for the fuel you plan to use and keep it consistent

Excellent ..that is until I get the sensor one day..

[turbomystic]

Thanks