Strange timing dip into 5th gear only - 2017 Camaro SS

[TriPinTaZ]

Hi all,

I have been trying to chase down an issue with my tune but I don't see a reason for whats happening. Mods are Rotofab intake w/ dry filter, ported OEM Intake Manifold and Throttle Body, Full Borla exhaust with secondary cat delete. Car drives perfect except for at full throttle as soon as it shifts into 5th gear. I can feel the lack of power from 4th gear into 5th (A8 Transmission) but then after a moment the car picks back up again and the full power is back on. You can see in the attached screenshot that timing is way off (15 degrees) when this happens but then it returns to normal (23ish). Has anyone ever encountered this? I've left my Virtual Torque and Virtual VE stock for now. I was going to adjust them in only the problem area but I'm just searching for more info before I just start changing things.

Tune, Datalog, and screen shot attached. Any knowledge is welcome. Thanks!

Rotofab_1.0.hpt
PortedIntake_01.hpl
RF1.0.PNG

[Kyle_Customizer]

Try logging Immediate and Predicted torque values, if you're able to. I have found the Immediate toque change from "none" to "axle" it takes almost 10* from my timing, then moments later gives it back and it feels like a small nitrous shot. Adjusting the torque model in the effected areas helped with the issue for me. However, I still had that happen on very quick shifts, but slow to medium shifts were fine. I recently changed my no lift shift enable VSS to 256MPH and now I haven't seen this return and I've done quite a few freeway runs. With these new strategies that the ECU performs, I don't see any one table fixing a concern. More often than not, you're going to have to address multiple tables to get you're desired results.

[TriPinTaZ]

I'll try logging those parameters. This is an A8 by the way. I forgot to mention in my original post. I may swap the stock TB back on to see if it is specific to that mod. If so then I will try to adjust the torque model and see if I can tune it out.

[TriPinTaZ]

OK I did some more datalogging with more parameters and I see what is happening. It is my Torque Management Advance that is kicking in and pulling timing to reduce power. I changed my Virtual Torque tables in the area (airmass only) but it seems to have maybe helped a little in some areas but made it worse in other areas. So back to the think tank I go to figure that out. I also increased my max engine torque tables. As I understand that the e92 will have an issue if your "Predicted Engine Torque" is higher than your "Maximum Engine Torque" when the ECU is referencing Axle and Driver for those values. Even with my Max Engine Tq tables being exceeded by the Predicted Enginge TQ multiple times in the attached datalog, it did not correlate with when Torque Management Advance was pulling timing except for one instance. So I'm not sure that logic applies to the e92 on an A8 car. At least I haven't been able to successfully replicate that logic.

Would anyone with more e92 experience be willing to check my tune and point me in the right direction? I've tried as little as +2% changes and as high as +6% changes in the Virtual Torque areas but the WOT Torque Management Advance is still limiting spark randomly. I'm actually considering lowering the Virtual Torque tables in the 900-1000 airmass area. My thinking is maybe the ECU will report less actual torque and the rest will fall in line at WOT. These A8's seem to be a little harder to nail down, especially with DoD/AFM still enabled.

In the meantime I have removed the ported TB (left ported intake on) and set my Virtual Torque and Max Engine Torque tables back to stock. The issue does not exist in this configuration so it is definitely related to the extra air from the ported TB.

PortedIntake_1.3-1.hpl
Ported_Intake_TB_RF_1.3.hpt
RF1.3.1.PNG
RF1.3.2.PNG

Thanks in advance for any insight.

[TriPinTaZ]

Do the 2017 e92's with A8's even reference Driver Demand or is that a M6 thing only? Or a 2016 and earlier? It's not anywhere for my 2017 A8 car in HPTuners yet I see people referencing this table a lot.

[veee8]

Make sure you are in advanced viewing mode. This is from your file....



Screenshot (26).png

[TriPinTaZ]

Well I feel dumb. I was wondering how I was supposed to tune my car with all these missing tables. Can you tell I haven't used HPTuners in a while? lol

Thanks this helps a lot.

[TriPinTaZ]

Now that my datalogs reference actual values in HP Editor I'm going to put the ported TB back on and make some pulls. Now I'm just posting in case anyone else finds this thread useful.

[TriPinTaZ]

I finally got a chance to go out and datalog with some significant speeds and full throttle events. With the Ported TB removed but Ported Intake still installed I am seeing the same issue with Torque Management Advance kicking in and pulling out timing. It is only in the higher gears now and never really shows up at lower speeds even at WOT. I am also seeing where Immediate Engine Torque source sometimes flips from none to Trans S when this happens. But not always.

My car was in the shop before this so I am going to put the stock intake manifold back on and go datalog just to rule out any issues. This way I will have a solid baseline before I go messing with the tune any further.

Attached is the current known good tune which I was running during the attached datalog. I am monitoring a lot of parameters to cover all the bases.

RF1.0_8.25.17.2.hpl
Rotofab_1.0.hpt

[TriPinTaZ]

Testing with only mods being Rotofab and 2nd Cat Delete I'm actually still seeing a bit of Torque Management Advance kicking in but only in 5th and higher again. So I've put the Ported TB and Ported Intake back on. I've edited my Peak Engine Torque, Driver Demand and Airmass Coefficients. Hopefully tomorrow it wont rain and I can get out and datalog. I had someone point my login in the right direction on the torque based system so we'll see.

[TriPinTaZ]

I think I was able to fix my issue. I edited my Driver Demand and Torque Coefficient Airmass tables to my already edited Peak Engine Torque and TCM Torque limiter. Datalongs look way better and Torque Management Adviance did not kick it at all. I am seeing a couple of degrees of knock retard but I haven't even messed with that part of the tune yet. Its kinda warm outside and 1-2 degrees of KR doesn't bother me much.

In the tune you can see how I had to lower one set of tables and increase another set. This finally set the delta of the torque values apart enough to stop TMA from kicking in. I think Driver Demand also played a role but not sure how yet. I'm just going over my logs and things are looking pretty good now.

RF1.1_8.27.17-1.hpl
Rotofab_1.0.hpt