You have a lot to learn about the ls3 and lsa engines. Lets just leave it at that for now and keep this thread on it's original track.
You have a lot to learn about the ls3 and lsa engines. Lets just leave it at that for now and keep this thread on it's original track.
The most hated, make the most power.
93 Ranger. 5.3 D1X. 1069hp.
Brian, Yes he does... To the original poster - I'm sorry, but I'm getting tired of this - especially someone blatantly calling me a liar... Hell AutoWiz - I like your builds - Even tried to keep the stupid back and forth name game out of it by keeping my remarks solely on track and to the original point of the thread, but if this is what you want then this is what I'm going to give you...
To begin with - a lesson... Just because I'm getting REALLY tired of hearing this - compression DOES NOT dictate timing or fuel requirement / hell, boost DOES NOT dictate timing or fuel requirement... Do you typically get more power from higher octane fuels - yes, but unless your running 0 or negative timing you don't have to run race gas to have a daily driven 1000rwhp car... THE TUNER is what dictates this in HIS or HER tune and their ABILITY to make it work and last... CAN NOT emphasize this enough!!!
Now with that being said - car as posted is a 2013 ZL1 Camaro - DUE TO absolutely trashy machine work, we had to ditch the stock block and heads... As it is now - it is a DART iron block 416 stroker, MAST Performance cylinder heads with their required shaft rocker setup, Callies Dragon Slayer crank and rods, Diamond coated pistons, tie bar lifters, Comp Hi-Tech Pushrods, Mighty Mouse Crankcase Breather setup, RAM racing clutch, Magnuson Heartbeat, 108mm TB, 4.5inch Cold Air Intake Coupled to a K&N, Meth Injection "solely for iat's and safety only", ID1300's, Boost Reference 1:1 regulator, Fore Fuel Rails, Squash Dual Pump Fuel System... I'm also sure I forgot some things, but those are the main ones...
To be 100% fair - yes I should probably update my sig - it's only making 18psi now, due to a bad cam decision - was hoping to make the power back with timing, but it just didn't want anymore, so lost power and some torque by going to a slightly more aggressive cam with a higher lsa (lobe separation angle in case you don't know) / Furthermore, if you really knew Magnuson Blowers, then you should obviously be aware of their design inlet flaws - you can actually see it in this dyno where power and torque drop off right after 4000rpms... No it's not spark knock or lack of timing - this thing was dialed into the details of cylinder to cylinder fuel contributions, so I think I would know - plus you can talk to the main dude at Magnuson if you don't believe me...
New Cam Dyno.jpg
This is with the old cam, even though due to tack dropout - it's still not the best pull it did - I've even got some of it putting down 9teens in torque with the higher power numbers... The older cam as you can tell is making up for the blower inefficiencies and allows power to keep climbing...
Older Cam.jpg
This is a picture of the engine compartment... Pulley setup is a 10" crank, 70mm blower - spins just over 24300ish.
rpms..
ZL1 Engine Compartment.jpgPulley Config.jpg
^^^ Yeah you can even comment on my ziptie holding the catch can in place - last minute racetrack mods - right...
Now here's the thing - don't care how good you claim to be, if you don't have the actual proof to back it up, then there's always the question - right - Well I claim to be a damn good tuner and my tunes and customers speak for themselves... This car was beat to living hell out running half mile race after race - you show me one more set of time slips out there this consistent being run back to back like this... You could bracket race most of my cars...
Time Slips.jpgTime Slips2.jpg
Now, since this is a constantly changing shop car - I'll even be really generous and post the tune for you... For those of you out there that notice some things in this tune - only a couple of OS out there currently have these tables - thanks to Scott and HPT, your going to be seeing about 200 extra tables coming into the picture on the GM side... I've even personally sent a bunch in to be added, that still aren't in there, but hopefully will be...
AutoWiz, if you really want I can completely cluster this up and post every 900rwhp + stock engine tune I've done, but I don't really see a point... You call me a liar again and I'll have a plane ticket to Florida in my hand
Last edited by GHuggins; 11-01-2017 at 01:52 PM.
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
Here's the tune for that one - wouldn't let me add it... Really not even sure what I did that pissed you off, but there it is...
OH - also forgot - its running 9.5:1 compression, but most of my engines run 10:1 static or better
Last edited by GHuggins; 10-31-2017 at 01:23 PM.
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
What is up with the torque curve on your pd blower??? every pd blown dyno pull I have ever seen shows a torque curve as flat as a pancake with max torque at all rpms. Explain this to the forum please why your torque ramps up so progressively and so contradictory to everything positive displacement supercharged?
Last edited by AutoWiz; 10-31-2017 at 01:45 PM.
Here's just a couple of stock ZL's - look flat to you? Just because a PD blower makes "around" one boost level, doesn't mean your going to have 900lbft of torque at 1000rpms... Come on man - even you should know this - a blower does not define a power curve by itself - you should have caught that with the cams changing things? Heck - open a factory PD blower tune and then go to the factory torque model - what does it look like?
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
Sorry bud, but PD blowers throw all their stuff up front and then taper off. And you are always at your max torque real early in life. when we play with pulley sizes to overdrive the pd blower the power comes in even sooner. This is why Chevrolet droped the c7 z06's blower down to 1.9L from the 2.3L that the c6 zr1 ran and made it spin faster. So it gets into boost sooner. But you are still gaining or building up torque past 4krpm??
Last edited by AutoWiz; 10-31-2017 at 04:36 PM.
And how are you starting out your pulls below 1k rpm and below 20mph? I always make my pulls in 4th trying to get as close to a 1:1 ratio as possible for the best data. What is up with that? That is really bizarre. Was that on an engine dyno? The norm is a rolling start and like 22 or 2500rpm to 6k or wherever to look at the powerband. Why from idle to redline? This must have been on an engine dyno outside of the car. And the zl1 pull from 20 to 130 must have been a third gear pull. WTF? Pulls are made in fourth gear 1:1. Unless you are just hoping to cheat higher numbers. Winpep8 is better with handling gear ratios. Or maybe that is just the dynojet 224xlc. But after pulls my dyno tells me what gear ratio I am running based off of drum speed and engine speed.
Last edited by AutoWiz; 10-31-2017 at 04:25 PM.
You are a special kind of special auto whizz.
Not for nothing here , Ben C, but I have chased power with a heartbeat. A few times. And installed a whole mess of heartbeat superchargers. And when we start winding them out on the dyno, they always do this..
The car and blower that belong to that dyno sheet are here:
https://www.superchargerforums.com/t...lown-z06.5348/
And here:
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...d.php?t=284465
And every other Maggie I have installed is the same. All the power up front, hold, and drop off. Because that is what a pd blower is and how they operate. The torque curve as flat as a pancake IS the whole selling point to the blower. It is strange to see a different trend. So strange that I honestly and truthfully do not believe that power band goes to a magnuson supercharged engine.
Surely you can see that a camshaft will change power delivery of an engine. What cam was used for those pulls above?
Well ya sure. A cam can very much affect the powerband of an engine. And a cam can also have an impact on how much boost a blower can build. But no the cam is not going to change the way that the power adder performs. With stock pulleys and gentle boost at 6psi the magnuson drops off between 5 and 6k in torque. As we add to the ratio with pulleys you get what you see in my dyno results where it starts dropping off before 5k. you make more power but drop off sooner. because thiere is no way to change the fact that the motor needs more and more air as it ramps up and the screws put out more of a constant air that doesn't ramp up at the same rate as the motors needs. Hence why pd blowers give everything up front and then fall off. with pulleys this effect is even worse. And this man is claiming 20 psi and smaller pulleys and he is still ramping up in tq at 4k rpm? Hogwash. And I will tell you what else I know about the Heartbeat. It is made to fit under a stock hood. When it comes to chasing power, even though it is a tvs2300, you are so much better off with a tvs2300. Like this one..
That was for this corner carving LSX roadster right here:
https://www.superchargerforums.com/t...roadster.3131/
And here:
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...d.php?t=271354
This blower is a much better candidate for trying to get big power out of. I am not saying the heartbeat isn't capable, it just gets hotter faster because the screws are resting on the valley of the motor and encased deep within the engine's heat.
Last edited by AutoWiz; 10-31-2017 at 05:22 PM.
Fun fact about Magnuson blowers, btw. Where we have to change oil in our centri's every 6k or every other engine oil change, Magnuson blowers go 85,000miles in between oil changes. It stands to reason that this lifespan should shorten with overdrive pulleys but I have found no documentation or proof of this one way or the other.
GHuggins. Where is the explosive jump on your torque curve down low when the power adder kicks in? What cam do you run top have such a slow and linear ramp to torque? You do see this jump even on your zl1 pulls. it's the vertical jump at the beginning.
Start doing your pulls idling in 4th gear and you might discover some things - seriously - your cheating your customers... There are only 1 or 2 tuners out there that tunes anything as thoroughly as I do... Why don't YOU openly post some of your tunes - any of us can probably show you 10 or more issues with them
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
The "jump" as you put it - has to do with starting the pull before you stomp it - again, if you would start your pulls from idle you could save a whole lot of this BS questioning...
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
GHuggins, Thanks for the subtle knock, noted and I get it. WB is the way to go, Santa has it on his list, gotta make sure my 10 Grandkids get their haul first ;-)Originally Posted by GHuggins
The reason why you pull the timing is so it doesn't have the "ability" to knock - last thing you want is it knocking and cracking a piston or ring land because your trying to cheap out and tune without a wideband installed
As mentioned; I'm a newbie, having bought a HPT Std just 3 or 4 months ago, with no, repeat NO Experience, and I do plan on getting myself a Wideband set up, still trying to sort out all the pieces that I need to pick up (Anyone got a shopping list for this for my setup, hear/read 98's are somewhat different...) so I'm not wasting money on something I can't use, or on garbage. I tune for myself, and may assist a couple of co-workers (If I ever get enough experience. Doing my best to learn from everyone with more experience than me, ...pretty much everyone!
I really do appreciate your input, and am turning all the guidance I get into a "Tuning Process", As you and others have pointed out in my original tune, I missed steps, didn't disable, and all of that is the result of following someone else's "How to Tune" instructions... Living and learning at 54... I may grow old, but I refuse to give up my toys, and grow up!
I appreciate the info on timing, knock and the rest... All good info, and keeps me from blowing my motor! Thanks again!
V/r,
Mike
Last edited by MikeyZ28SS; 10-31-2017 at 06:38 PM.
Wiz, thanks for all the great info. I see Ive got a lot of set-up, prep to do, get my config/layout set up, then take my current tune, and "De-tune", then start disabling, etc... Then I can start the tuning process. That's why Its important to me to get the whole process laid out, step-by-step. That way I understand and can see/follow and really learn what's going on with the motor/tune. I'll be starting to work on those fixes with the tune files from the OP.
I have no doubt either you, Huggins, or a bunch of others following along could tune my car (basic tune) with files ready to go in a couple hours, likely less! Awesome, I hope to get there! Really do appreciate all your inputs, very detailed, and great instruction; cause and effect, Do's and don'ts, very nice!
V/r,
Mike
It is important that you understand you are having two different tuning strategies being thrown at you at the same time. There are many more different ideas on how to go about doing this. What matters most is that you find your way to a process that works for you and gets you the results you are looking for. And don't worry about ol' GHuggins after a little more back and forth in a few more threads when I am declared "Senior Tuner" he will be forced to show respect to his then peer. Happy Halloween guys.
Taken from Maf and ve tuning in the tuning the right way course sold on this very website here:
https://www.hptuners.com/order.php
And at the tuning schools website here:
http://thetuningschool.com/product/g...-3-x-software/
And I quote:
Step 1: Disable maf sensor .....
Step 2: Adjust Power Enrichment enable TPS%
Adjust the power enrichment enable TPS% upward so that it will not interfere with the partial throttle tuning. Do this by clicking on Engine and then click on the fuel control tab and then clickon the Power Enrichment tab and then click on the Hot button under the pe enable tps heading. The table will appear. Record all values as you will need to reset this table when you are done with this process. Once you've recorded the values, change all values to 100%. You can do this by highlighting the table and entering 100 in the % box and then clicking on the = sign. Some vehicles' computers may have more than one pe enable tps setting. For example, the screenshot below shows both a hot button and a cold button. You need to adjust both.
The above was a direct, verbatim, word for word quote from a course sold both on this website and the tuning schools. It doesn't matter about any of your feelings on this process, It is endorsed by because it is sold on this website. and it's knowledge doesn't come cheap. So when I post up advice from this process It should not be immediately met with "that is not advised" When that is very much what is advised if you actually pony up the $$$ to learn how to tune instead of what you could find for less or free elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
