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Thread: Hellcat uncontrollable knock

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    Did you get different injector data from ID? The reason I ask is what you have and what is on their site is very different. I ended up getting different data for the 1700's I used because there wasn't enough breakpoints in the data that ID originally provided.
    I spent a lot of time with Paul to figure out what I needed.

    Also your injPW vs Fuel Mass tables don't match the inverse tables, which they need to.
    Sorry I'm so used to telling people that they are IDs that I forgot to tell you what they actually are. They are FIC 1000s. I usually just tell people ID because I don't need to explain who FIC is.

    I will look at the injPW vs Fuel Mass tables. It's going to take a while to research but I think I can do it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    I mispoke about the timing. I didn't realize I was looking at the WOT Thermal table by mistake.
    Oh okay got it. I will focus on the injPW vs Fuel Mass tables then.

  3. #23
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    There's a thread on here about tuning w/ ANN on and how to do the InjPW vs Fuel Mass tables.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    Did you get different injector data from ID? The reason I ask is what you have and what is on their site is very different. I ended up getting different data for the 1700's I used because there wasn't enough breakpoints in the data that ID originally provided.
    I spent a lot of time with Paul to figure out what I needed.

    Also your injPW vs Fuel Mass tables don't match the inverse tables, which they need to.
    Any chance you can provide me a quick screenshot of your tune file with the injPW, Fuel Mass, and inverse tables open so I can see what you mean?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    There's a thread on here about tuning w/ ANN on and how to do the InjPW vs Fuel Mass tables.
    Oh so this is an ANN thing? I think I have that thread saved and have read through it. Didn't you start it? Lol

    https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...-spark-advance

  6. #26
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    Some good info in this thread.

    Be careful when watching kr on the cats as sometimes other forms of tm will show up as kr and screw with you
    Last edited by curt@injected; 11-27-2017 at 03:11 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by curt@injected View Post
    Some good info in this thread.

    Be careful when watching kr on the cats as sometimes other forms of tm will show up as kr and screw with you
    What do you think could do it in the middle of a gear when I've manually selected the gear? I'm going to fix my fuel mass tables and get a bunch more logs that we can look at.

    I'm hoping to come up with something conclusive that others can use because I know the knock sensors are something that a lot struggle with.

  8. #28

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JoshCP527 View Post
    Watched it thanks. Looks like I have a lot of videos to watch and reading to do. Thank you.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    There's a thread on here about tuning w/ ANN on and how to do the InjPW vs Fuel Mass tables.
    Jay have a look at this....

    I was going to correct the inverse tables and I figured I would check the injector data first. Every entry is different from what FIC lists. Could these be the tuners preference or would you say a mistake?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowSRT8 View Post
    Jay have a look at this....

    I was going to correct the inverse tables and I figured I would check the injector data first. Every entry is different from what FIC lists. Could these be the tuners preference or would you say a mistake?

    It very well could be from the tuner tuning the InjPW tables. What I mean is you start off with their data and "tweak" or tune but changing the tables. It's kinda like getting a MAF for a Ford and using the supplied data then having to change the data some to get the tune sorted out.

  12. #32
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    The best I can tell from the pic it looks like the InjPW values are the same but the Fuel Mass has been changed. From my experience and what I have learned, it should be the other way around. Fuel Mass stays the same and you change the InjPW to achieve that desired fuel mass. That's how I learned how to do it and have always done it that way.

    Can you do it the other way? I have no idea. Is it going to cause some sort of issues? I have no idea about that either.

    What I do know is changing the InjPW only and having the inverse tables match works, but that's just been my experience.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    It very well could be from the tuner tuning the InjPW tables. What I mean is you start off with their data and "tweak" or tune but changing the tables. It's kinda like getting a MAF for a Ford and using the supplied data then having to change the data some to get the tune sorted out.
    Thanks just checking I'll get the inverse table set.

  14. #34
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    Actually let me look at your tune again. With the units being different I'm having a hard time telling if they are the same or not.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    Actually let me look at your tune again. With the units being different I'm having a hard time telling if they are the same or not.
    They are different as far as I can tell. By units to you mean MG vs G?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowSRT8 View Post
    They are different as far as I can tell. By units to you mean MG vs G?
    Correct. Everyone does it different. I normally use ms for the InjPW and g for Fuel Mass, that's just what I'm use to looking at.

    However the most important thing is to make sure that you are in the same units the data is from the manufacturer when you input the data in and make sure your inverse tables are in the same units as well.

    Also, when you make a histogram do log your STFT/LTFT, the histo has to be setup with the Fuel Mass data from your tune(new injectors)What I mean is you can't use the same Fuel Mass values as a stock Cat because the breakpoints are going to be different.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    Correct. Everyone does it different. I normally use ms for the InjPW and g for Fuel Mass, that's just what I'm use to looking at.

    However the most important thing is to make sure that you are in the same units the data is from the manufacturer when you input the data in and make sure your inverse tables are in the same units as well.

    Also, when you make a histogram do log your STFT/LTFT, the histo has to be setup with the Fuel Mass data from your tune(new injectors)What I mean is you can't use the same Fuel Mass values as a stock Cat because the breakpoints are going to be different.
    Okay I have the histo setup, but since I have no logs with Fuel Mass Cyl 1, I don't have any data in the column. I have adjusted the inverse tables as you described and have attached screenshots if you'd like to review. I also show my histogram setup if you'd like to look.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #38
    I am very confused with the histogram. I am creating the histo so that I can pull values off it to paste back into editor? I have read it over and over and am not grasping it. What values am I generating with that new histo and why should they be pasted into the InjPW vs Fuel Mass tables? I thought I already have all those values set.

  19. #39
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    Can you post a log?

    The reason for this histo is this. At each Fuel Mass breakpoint there is an InjPW value. The PCM looks at the tune to achieve a particular Fuel Mass, then looks at the 02 sensor to see how it did.
    If the 02 sensor says, hey we needed another +20% of in the fuel trims to get the Fuel Mass you asked for originally, you can record it in the histo.

    It's just like using STFT for VE tuning, same was using STFT for MAF tuning.

    Dodge is a little different you can only do STFT/LTFT except for the Cats where you can use STFT at WOT tuning.

    Post your log, there's probably something really simple that needs to be changed in your histo. Once you see the histo working it will make a lot more sense.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    Can you post a log?

    The reason for this histo is this. At each Fuel Mass breakpoint there is an InjPW value. The PCM looks at the tune to achieve a particular Fuel Mass, then looks at the 02 sensor to see how it did.
    If the 02 sensor says, hey we needed another +20% of in the fuel trims to get the Fuel Mass you asked for originally, you can record it in the histo.

    It's just like using STFT for VE tuning, same was using STFT for MAF tuning.

    Dodge is a little different you can only do STFT/LTFT except for the Cats where you can use STFT at WOT tuning.

    Post your log, there's probably something really simple that needs to be changed in your histo. Once you see the histo working it will make a lot more sense.
    I have to get a new one because I didn't have that PID selected or the histo created yet. I will be off work shortly and should be able to do it tonight.