Really would like to see the set of PIDs I gave you. You are missing some valuable information on your log.
Really would like to see the set of PIDs I gave you. You are missing some valuable information on your log.
While I cannot correctly filter it like it should be here is the error on your MAF. Best guess 25% off in some areas.
12-3-2017 7-37-26 PM.png
The intake is 4 inch aluminum tube with 9 inch K&N cone filter on it, no idea what a factory x-section is where the maf sits stock. I assume that is in fact a stock file, it is from the repository. I also noticed that it was lower than stock when I started but had to shrug my shoulders as it is not the first thing that has thrown me for a loop with this car.Originally Posted by jsllc
I understand that the error is greater than STFT can account for...they are pegged yet with time commanded creeps up (with engine warm up at idle) to just at 20%stft when warm (STFTS come off of 26% max and settle) so behind the scenes either airflow model is changing or fuel model is changing beyond fuel trims, would think its something to do with IVT/other temp related table. Granted my injector offset was untouched then too.
I will log the Channels you sent in the AM cold start and post up.
All of that error is including decel which I have filtered most of out, still working out getting it all.
I set up excel to fit the 3rd order polynomial and stitched in part of it in the mid range. My max value (15000 hz) is so off that it throws off the smoothing dramatically, so worked on a chunk below.
Thanks for your input Scott!
FYI I have math formulas over 1000 items long trying to predict MAF. Threw them all out. When I have dyno, good math and log of actual, I can get the MAF within =-2% in under an hour and usually only takes 5 passes or less. Most times 3 or 4. Took 7 minutes to calc on very high end system. 15th order polynomial still was not enough resolution.
Ok,
I've learned a few things I think. SHould have started with the stock MAF cal to begin with...duh...not tweaking what was already a piece of crap.
I used the following filter on my data:
[50090.155.slope(-500)]=0 AND [50090.155.slope(500)]=0 AND [50090.155]>.13 AND ([6310]=8 or [6310]=9) AND [50156.155]=0 AND [50158.155]=0 AND [50030.90]>40 AND [50020.110.slope(-400)]=0 AND [50020.110.slope(400)]=0
Slope of TPS must be zero for +/- .5s, greater than idle tps, FTC = 8/9, STFT are 0 (I forgot to start out in OL this AM, again with the learning), MAP > 40 kPa, and the slope of the vehicle speed (accel) not changing. I wound up with the attached error from the log. Also attached is the error between my current values and stock, and the error from the log. Log error is just a touch under error from stock to begin with, which is why I say I should have started stock first.
Scott, lets just assume for the time being this will be done on the street...I'm having a hard time getting good data up above 6000 Hz. Just have to wind it up in the RPMs? PE jumps a whole section with boost coming in.
The forum isnt letting me upload the log from this AM, I can email out if you want to PM me an address.
you should be able to hold 3-4 psi without getting into PE to get the 6k+ hz range with ease. There is a relearn factor to the fuel trims after flash as well.
The most hated, make the most power.
93 Ranger. 5.3 D1X. 1069hp.
[QUOTE=Area47;508435]you should be able to hold 3-4 psi without getting into PE to get the 6k+ hz range with ease. There is a relearn factor to the fuel trims after flash as well.
If I wind it up slow its not in boost, if I get in boost, its PE...is there a particular method to this? Thanks for the input!
[QUOTE=adam112;508440]turn the pe settings back to factory issue and you can do it this way.you should be able to hold 3-4 psi without getting into PE to get the 6k+ hz range with ease. There is a relearn factor to the fuel trims after flash as well.
If I wind it up slow its not in boost, if I get in boost, its PE...is there a particular method to this? Thanks for the input!
The most hated, make the most power.
93 Ranger. 5.3 D1X. 1069hp.
So my commute seems to be just a couple minutes longer than the max size log file I can upload...
Strange phenomenon still on startup. Right when I crank I am showing EQcom of .45.. WB shows .6Xs
What is off here? Why is commanded that damn rich? Is that normal for a 50deg start on e80?
Additionally, is the large EQ error here due to IVT OL gain? The inj temp offset is 0 below 122, by inj temp = 110 (cruising this AM), the error is down to 1-2% and the offset has not been involved.
Couple pounds of boost in 4th got me the intermediate airflow data I needed. I think the lady next to me in a Civic was thrown off by me boosting by her, slowing down, boosting by again
Happy to share the log (please, look at this damn thing!) just need an email address; I promise I wont sell it or try to sell you anything
And tomorrow I will cut the file shorter for cold start data.
I have tried twice to contact you. Both in PM and using email function for board.
Glad you got through to me, I only showed the one final PM.
Copying my emailed questions here.
I am lean on cold start and dead on commanded at hot idle. So offset vs temp or IVT open loop gains is my thought.
Scott, I have not dialed in inj offset temp timing according to your approach yet. I’m still a little confused. I understand how you get the data, but are PW adder values positive on either side of your ‘normal operating’ InjTT? It should be richer when colder so pos. offset, and richer when hotter for protection? So pos adder? Purely for fueling it would be negative at hotter temps and positive at lower, right? But the whole point is to not zero it (or go negative). That aside, the factory table is zeroed at colder temps.
That leads me to think IVT gain is where I adjust for this cold start issue. If that is the case I will log a warm up at idle of eq err vs IVT and MAP to shift that table as needed.
Adam.
I hate seeing this. I recently tuned a CTS-V with similar, mods. Email me at [email protected], I'll send it over, and you can compare and change what you wish, it should be a huge step in the right direction for you.
Easiest way to get to 3-4 psi in boost with repeatability when you have a 2.4 pulley:
1. Pull the plug of the PWM vacuum control solenoid on the bypass valve. This will keep the bypass fully open. With the 2.4 upper and stock bottom pulley, you'll still make 3-4 psi even with the bypass completely wide open -- unless the bypass valve throat has been ported, which it really shouldn't have as it adds nothing to performance.
2. Set the PE to 99% throttle, so that you'll only hit PE on the floor.
3. When logging, you can floor it all the way and then just let up a tiny bit and it will immediately come out of PE but will maintain the boost (this is easier than trying to sneak up on maximum amount of pedal but not 100%).
Last edited by OneTwo; 12-05-2017 at 10:18 PM.
If you are lean on immediate startup (i.e., after 3 seconds, but before 20 seconds) and you are in MAF only mode, then you're too lean on the MAF settings. Add some airflow to the table below 4000HZ. That will correct it.
I don't follow the multiple comments that I should try to get in boost but not PE?! That sounds disasterous?
I have been able to get the full range of MAF frequencies now, just harder to get anything steady state. in mid boost levels. I have a 9.5 lower (first post) so could still try that approach with bypass but I think I'll keep PE...MAF dont care if PE or not.
I'm only lean cold at this point. Idling average of -0.5% hot. Logged a cold start idle warmup this AM and going to work the IVT gain table.
Post your latest tune too please with the log...
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
Good point. However, CTS-V's are low compression motors and 3 psi of boost is not much. If you want to be conservative, you can tune from the rich side of things and could start by adding to the MAF values so that it is obviously rich, and log the values from there. You can then paste the % corrections to lean the MAF table to get it accurate. You can also trigger PE real early and set your PE values to something easy to tune to across the board like .90 Lamda. Then adjust the MAF values and log with your wideband to get there. I would still do this with the boost control solenoid disconnected so that you are limited to 3-4 psi boost.
Last edited by OneTwo; 12-06-2017 at 04:50 PM.
What is a good way to determine mode conditions for the desired FPs with factory setup? And are those mode condition values actual flow or injector flow rate?
Since the injectors are scaled by 0.5, is a good starting point to multiply the tables by 0.5?
Think I'll set my desired FPs, then calculate the corresponding flow rates of those pressures and normal MAP for idle, driving, PE, then setup all of the mode conditions based on that?
After scaling injectors I now stay in low flow all the time and am trying to remedy this.
The stock values are much to high for it to be based on injector flow rate, so it must be actual flow.
**I set up a parameter to track that based on IFR, RPM, and PW that seems to track to the original tables when adjusted for scaling. I'm going to play around with this a bit, with half of the factory specs it looks like I will be in low flow unless in PE, then hit normal briefly and straight into high flow mode. I may adjust the low flow lower and the high flow down a bit too so that normal flow is used in moderate throttle cruising and hi instantly with PE. Low just used for off throttle stuff.
Last edited by adam112; 12-07-2017 at 12:56 PM.
Adam as I said in the emails. There is no need to scale your injectors or adjust any of these fueling parameters on your build. The E67 has enough range in the injector table to cover the stock 450kpa table setting. The flow for an ID1050x does not exceed 127 lb/hr at 450kpa and the car would never go over that at stock settings with a stock pump so scaling is just an exercise in extra work.
^^^^ This^^^^^
The ID1050X's in a lightly modified CTS-V can be installed using the regular, non-scaled flow data. Not having to scale keeps a bunch of things in check (such as IVT parameters, console for fuel mileage, etc).
Last edited by OneTwo; 12-18-2017 at 01:35 AM.
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