Cam Phasing issues on 2016 Challenger SRT 6.4L

[hi_rev_theo]

I had a 2016 Chalenger SRT8 6.4 w/auto trans on the dyno yesterday and I noticed that making changes to any/all of the exhaust cam phasing tables made no changes to the actual cam position. Logged cam position did not change nor did power output with changes to the exhaust cam tables. I also noticed that the logged cam position did not match the WOT cam tables at all. It actually exactly matches the Warm up table (and also if you merge the high load areas of the Lo and Hi Baro Cam Maps, it matches those as well). Has anyone had success moving the stock cam on these? This is with vcm 3.7 btw.


vcm scanner exhcam 2016 srt8.jpg

vcm cam position warm up map.jpg

vcm wot cam maps 2016 srt8.jpg

[[email protected]]

Unfortunately I do not believe you will find any gains with moving the stock cam. If you change the correct exhaust cam tables the cam will move unless you have it locked or the oil temp isn't high enough. There is also a PID called something like exhaust cam angle error that may show differences with the commanded/desired cam position.

[hi_rev_theo]

The car had a 180 deg thermostat vs the ~200 deg stock thermostat and it tripped a thermostat code. Mike, do you think that's enough to keep it from accessing the WOT tables? I've picked up quite a bit of power on the Dodge v6 although I've heard it doesn't do much on the v8 I'm still concerned that it's not even reading from the WOT table.

[curt@injected]

There's no gain to be had moving the cam on a stock 6.4

[hi_rev_theo]

Curt thanks for the answer. The car has long tubes, throttle body, intake, exhaust work (may still constitute "stockish"). I understand the consensus is that there is no power to be gained from adjusting the cam phasing but just to satisfy my curiosity as a tuner, I'd like to at least see the power drop. My beef is that A) I cannot move the cam during WOT (haven't tried part throttle) no matter what tables I change and B) upon doing some logs on the street tonight, the WOT cam position DOES NOT seem to directly reference any of the cam tables while in WOT. Perhaps it is interpolating between 2 or more tables but the values definitely don't come from the WOT table or any other table I see.

The car is still using ANN and VCM 3.7. Are you guys that are actually getting the cam to move tuning in VE? Attached tune in case anyone can spot something I'm overlooking. Thanks for any input

otis pull 3 no tq mgt and fans bad cam try check timing.hpl

otis 12-3-17 -- done pulled timing - normal fan temps.hpt

[[email protected]]

Your cam is doing exactly what you have it programmed to in the tune at WOT. If you want to modify the WOT cam position go to Engine/Airflow/Variable Cam/Exhaust Cam/WOT
Set the cam position at WOT in this table - it will move as you set it.

[hi_rev_theo]

Yeah Mike, I got the location of the tables down to a science. I just tuned a 2016 V6 SXT and picked up 30 lbs of tq from moving intake and exhaust cams @ WOT and a couple deg's of timing up top. I understand how this little deal works. If you take a look at my logs, the cam timing is off 6-10 degrees in the logs vs. what the WOT tables *should be* commanding... so they are not doing what is programmed. I'm using version 3.7. I'll try 3.6 and also email the hptuners team. If I find an solution, I'll post it up. Thanks guys for your input.

[Hemituna]

WOT cam timing is pretty close on the most dodge stuff that is stock or minor mods.
If you change things tho, like exhaust or blower etc, they often like the cam in a different place.
There are also very good gains to be had from the PT cam tables.
Anyone who knows anything about cam timing can see that they (PT) are emission numbers and not the best for response or tq.
That is why there is no egr anymore, they use cam timing.

[hi_rev_theo]

Hey Hemituna... I noticed that you play a lot with the cam phasing. Have you had any issues like mines on the later model 6.4's?

[11challenger]

I took Hemituna's advice on my 2011 for the PT cam timing and it did seem to have more response. I am still playing with it some, and have to log with an Intune to see what my cam is doing, but so far it has pretty much responded to what I have in the tables.