Hey guys, I am still running into a torque limiter on the RS platforms I have tuned, both on stock and modified. Seems to be the same limiter. Throttle source is stating torque control, and the load target is riding the limiter that is desired load from torque control. The car is hitting desired TIP so it's a little confusing.
Kris
If you can please post a tune, without a tune I can take a guess. It looks like you've already defined your torque table max air loads higher (looks like stock is 2.4 and you're getting 2.48)? Have you upped the values in 44786->44791, the max torque tables under torque management? It looks like those are the tables limiting you. I know in the F-150 those tables are under transmission and not torque management, but if you hit the limit of those tables it doesn't actually show as a 'limit' at all.Originally Posted by kris5597
If that doesn't fix it please post a tune (or PM one)
Yessir, changed all of that. Here is the calibration. I maybe overthinking it but just want to get a second or third set of eyes.
Kris
I see why this is frustrating you lol. I don't have a guaranteed fix for this, some things to try..
-Are you doing write entire? (unless you have the beta) If you're just doing write calibration on editor v3.6 there have been issues with some values not flashing over.
-Try upping your desired TIP Max. Yours is set to 81 in/hg and your desired tip is sitting right at 79-80. I'm at best 50/50 this will help.
-Try raising your maximum load for your mapped points under airflow -> speed density. You're max in there right now is 2.2, and you're hitting just shy of 2.5, so I don't think its as likely. Calculations are based off that max load though, so .3 more may be the max it allows itself past that.
Do you happen to have a stock read and a stock log with the sources, torque requests, and air loads logged? Some of your logged values look odd to me, it may just be because I'm used to F-150's, but I'd like to see what your stock logs looked like compared to now. Your torque and inverse tables are a little odd, but I don't think they would be causing the tq limit numbers you're seeing.
Sorry I don't have better answers for you man.
It's quite understandable. I tune F150s as well, it doesn't vary that much. I am running the beta softwares, check for updates daily. Writing by calibration. I use the TIP max for a boost cap for the ecu and wastegate to regulate boost, if I up the desired tip max, it should theoretically increase torque in that area, which should increase the load, not sure why it would ride on the torque control rather than combustion max unless the wastegate duty tables are not calibrated enough to help regulate boost as well, not sure to be honest. I could try several things, again, just wanted another set of eyes to review before I start troubleshooting to hell and back lol.
The max load tables under speed density is a possibility, I'll give that a shot once I have a better set of ideas set so I can try several different things.
What is odd about my torque and inverse tables to you?
I'll post a stock log and calibration tomorrow.
Kris
So odd just meant it doesn't seem like the numbers in the row you added correlated well to the row before it in the table. Since you're having issues with torque/air load request I'd be more comfortable if those blended in better.
Here's the method I used when redefining the torque tables. This is not the 'correct' way to do it as that would definitely involve a load dyno and a log, but this was my compromise with tools I had available to try and guesstimate the values. I also wanted to keep as many factory 'good' values as I could, so instead of just relabeling the max air load row I deleted a row in a section where there was more 'resolution' in the table, but was still far enough up the range that having a larger jump between rows shouldn't affect normal drivability much (from my testing I haven't noticed any difference at all relating to the row I deleted).
So here's what my tables look like, and the row labels with a decimal added, and then attached is the spreadsheet I made to get my values for the 2.5 load cells. The first 2 tables I verified each value going into the 2.5 cells, then for the rest just copied the values in. A slightly better way would probably be to cross reference the mapped points you hit at WOT and verify the cells you will actually be hitting have values that look good to you.
I did the same process to populate the new cells in the IPC torque max table. These are from a '16 2.7l F-150 just FYI.
Torque Tables.png
Ah okay makes sense, that's what I figured you were going to say. Definitely, IMO, a better way to do things. It should be a close calculation and should work just fine. I just shot high on mine, perhaps should calculate it and smooth it, been meaning to actually implement that, just been focused on other things as well. Perhaps it's time to make it a priority to rule that out.
These are the stock files.
Kris
It seems you're maxing out the MAP sensor. The sensors recorded value of 75 in/hg if 2.5 bar, I'd thought the RS has a 3 bar MAP sensor, if it does though its being treated like a 2.5 bar. This would seem to be the root cause of your current 'limit', and also why your boost stays at the same number regardless of air load (which is not how much ecoboosts react).
I haven't spent any time so far looking into if there are map sensor upgrades for the RS or how people have gotten past the 2.5 bar limit on the MAP sensor your seeing, if I get time I'll try to look into it and post back here.
Kris,
We've just deployed a new BETA (3.7.1124) that adds a scanner parameter and a new table that should help diagnose the issue. Typically when there are no air limit sources involved and the ETC is closing, there is a hidden arbitration occurring to the airflow target. In your case, we can see the TIP Actual > TIP Desired at most points which is why the throttle is closed. However, in the areas where TIP Actual < TIP Desired, and Load / Torque are under the desired amounts, the throttle should be close to max.
The new table added is "Turbo Compressor Outlet Temperature Efficiency Multiplier" located in the Engine -> Airflow -> Turbocharger -> Temperature Limits section. I would start with a 1.5 multiplier to test, and increase as needed.
The new scanner parameter is "TIP Desired Maximum Clip", please add this to your list and get a new log with the table above modified.
Cheers,
-Braden
Hey guys,
I figured out the issue. I rescaled the torque tables like I've been pushing to the side, that I feel very comfortable with to carry over from RS to RS for my customers. I have also adjusted the LSPI tables, once the torque limit was removed, the LSPI tables were getting in the way. Now both RS I was working are achieving much higher load, boost is on target and they are rocketing! One however has an aftermarket wastegate actuator and this is proving to be a pain in my ass. I have rescaled the base and desired canister pressure tables and adjusted for the higher spring rate on the new wastegate and the car is hitting target boost however, adjusting to hold boost better up top is a little frustrating. The stock RS is hitting and holding 25psi to 6500rpm and the fully modified one is hitting 27 psi and tapering to 23 psi by 6500 due to the wastegate actuator issues. However, very happy with both cars right now with the new adjustments.
Kris
Rescaled them to report a lower tq value at a given load, or rescaled to a more accurate representation of what the engine is actually doing? Can you post, if not the same tune file but something similar? I get very few ecoboost around here so I have not had the opportunity to rescaled any of these as of yet.
I rescaled them to a more accurate representation of what the higher load would realistically achieve. In doing so, the stock RS had no problem hitting the 2.7 load cap with boost at 25psi, and the bolt on RS would easily achieve almost 2.9 load at 27psi, ambient temp was in the 30s, giving the opportunity for this high load. I had no issues with wastegate and throttle regulating boost properly with the torque control removed. The issue is the car would overboost on the bolt on rs, because of the aftermarket wastegate actuator, even with the tables reduced by a significant amount, because the throttle was limiting torque already due to the load cap and could not go lower to regulate boost, it was just fighting itself. With all fixed, they both rocket and boost regulation is perfect.
Kris
Hi,
@kris. I got an rs im having issue controlling wg with aftermarket wg and 16psi spring. Can i pm you/
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