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Thread: Closed loop during WOT?

  1. #1
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    Closed loop during WOT?

    I have the tune pretty dialed in now except it goes closed loop during wot sometimes. The Commanded eq goes from .81 to 1.0 randomly and goes closed loop at the same time. Any ideas? Happens at 2:01 on the log.

    Tune and log attached.

    2010 f150 raptor 5.4 3v roush blower 7 psi.

    maf temp correct, dashpot, fuel cranking lambda (to .91) - all else to stock.hpt
    closed.hpl
    Last edited by rgaum12; 01-20-2018 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #2
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    Cylair aniticipation doesn't make a difference on it either.

  3. #3
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    I've found if you set both the delay and max delay to a value of 0 this happens. I've set delay to .1 and max delay to 5 sec and it hits every time now. Haven't looked much further yet, I'll post if something jumps out.
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMGT1 View Post
    I've found if you set both the delay and max delay to a value of 0 this happens. I've set delay to .1 and max delay to 5 sec and it hits every time now. Haven't looked much further yet, I'll post if something jumps out.
    appreciate it. ill go test this out tonight.

  5. #5
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    Your WOT A/D entry value has me scratching my head a bit. I enter at 450 and full in WOT at 500, your entry is at 80. Maybe you were trying to bypass the driver demand table here?
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMGT1 View Post
    I've found if you set both the delay and max delay to a value of 0 this happens. I've set delay to .1 and max delay to 5 sec and it hits every time now. Haven't looked much further yet, I'll post if something jumps out.
    No luck. Still doin it

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMGT1 View Post
    Your WOT A/D entry value has me scratching my head a bit. I enter at 450 and full in WOT at 500, your entry is at 80. Maybe you were trying to bypass the driver demand table here?
    Honestly I’m not sure.. would that make a difference for it exiting WOT?

  8. #8
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    Not a clue on that one, it jumped out as really odd to me. I have had this PCM do strange stuff. It doesnt seem to flash properly unless I sit in the truck. Every accessory off, and with key still in the off position, hook up the dongle. Editor open and ready to flash. Key on, hold breath for a few mins and when it done, close out editor before key off. Remove key, open and close door, then start and scan. Seriously, Ive had weird stuff happen flashing this PCM, not going into PE at all and then with the exact same file flash in order as I said there, and it acts fine. I have no answer for it at all, just know what works for mine.
    Edit: Also try lowering your Cylair Max Multiplier to 1.95, it should be set slightly lower than the WOT Multiplier and would also set max load in speed density to 1.8 or so replacing the 1.0 you have.
    Last edited by MMGT1; 01-20-2018 at 08:45 PM.
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMGT1 View Post
    Not a clue on that one, it jumped out as really odd to me. I have had this PCM do strange stuff. It doesnt seem to flash properly unless I sit in the truck. Every accessory off, and with key still in the off position, hook up the dongle. Editor open and ready to flash. Key on, hold breath for a few mins and when it done, close out editor before key off. Remove key, open and close door, then start and scan. Seriously, Ive had weird stuff happen flashing this PCM, not going into PE at all and then with the exact same file flash in order as I said there, and it acts fine. I have no answer for it at all, just know what works for mine.
    Edit: Also try lowering your Cylair Max Multiplier to 1.95, it should be set slightly lower than the WOT Multiplier and would also set max load in speed density to 1.8 or so replacing the 1.0 you have.
    Still doing it but not all the time.. could it be torque calcs?

  10. #10
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    Torque and inverse torque tables looked out of whack to me. You know how to calibrate those? Eric added the math I believe but I have always done them manually.
    2000 Trans Am WS6

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    under engine diag.> airflow Raise your MAF airflow sensor Fail RPM to 7000.
    Under SD Raise you calculated MAP max to 23PSI.

    See if you can get a log with the fuel source PID. Any other source PIDs would help as well.

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    I've attached an 04 5.4 3V F150 with roush supercharger and the roush calibration. May be some help.


    Paul.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    under engine diag.> airflow Raise your MAF airflow sensor Fail RPM to 7000.
    Under SD Raise you calculated MAP max to 23PSI.

    See if you can get a log with the fuel source PID. Any other source PIDs would help as well.
    Just tried and no difference..
    attached updated log just because. Occurs at 5:05
    Attached Files Attached Files

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2000mcr View Post
    I've attached an 04 5.4 3V F150 with roush supercharger and the roush calibration. May be some help.


    Paul.
    Is this a stock roush tune?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgaum12 View Post
    Just tried and no difference..
    attached updated log just because. Occurs at 5:05
    It happening with every pull.
    Go higher with the calculated MAX MAP, I don't think you are at the actual max yet. I don't think your SD is letting the MAF read high enough and its falling back into CL to keep fuel on target. When the trims come in they are showing maxed out lean. Your load is reporting much lower than it should be and seems limited.

    The TQ model probably could be corrected as well.
    Last edited by murfie; 01-21-2018 at 11:06 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    It happening with every pull.
    Go higher with the calculated MAX MAP, I don't think you are at the actual max yet. I don't think your SD is letting the MAF read high enough and its falling back into CL to keep fuel on target. When the trims come in they are showing maxed out lean. Your load is reporting much lower than it should be and seems limited.

    The TQ model probably could be corrected as well.
    ok I swapped the torque tables with the roush tables supplied by 2000mcr.
    also increased MAX MAP to 30 psi.

    What do you think?

  17. #17
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    30-31 psi should get your load close to what you have in the failed MAF table, if it gets that high.

    The other option is to copy the SD tables as well and leave it at 23psi, that would get you close to the failed MAF values as well.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgaum12 View Post
    Is this a stock roush tune?
    Yes. The supercharger was installed by a Ford/Roush dealer when the truck was less than a year old.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    30-31 psi should get your load close to what you have in the failed MAF table, if it gets that high.

    The other option is to copy the SD tables as well and leave it at 23psi, that would get you close to the failed MAF values as well.
    so you advice to set the calculated MAX MAP double the reading PSI.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by small tuner View Post
    so you advice to set the calculated MAX MAP double the reading PSI.
    Ideally you want it just above what PSI you are reading and may read in the future in better DA. This will make the SD equations fit the best.

    Leaving the MAP per air mass(M) and MAP at zero air mass(b) tables stock he would need to use 30-31 PSI to see 1.5-1.6 engine load. Mx+b=y. x is air mass in LBs, derived from MAF lb/min and y is calculated MAP. Start at the calculated MAP MAX in inHg and work backwards you will get air mass values. divide those by the engine displacement value 0.00183 and you will get the maximum load values.

    example at 4286RPm

    At 31 psi
    63inHg=2.44inHg+x(19,865inHg/Lbm)

    60.56inHg=x(19,865inHg/Lbm)

    0.00305Lbm= x

    0.00305/0.00183= 1.67 engine load.

    If it was lower:
    at 23 psi
    47inHg=2.44inHg+x(19,865inHg/Lbm)

    44.56inHg= x(19,865inhg/Lbm)

    0.0022Lbm=x

    0.0022/0.00183= 1.23 engine load