Help With Wideband Installation/Tuning

[1364838952]

Noob here. I'm hoping it's something simple I'm overlooking and you guys can point me in the right direction.

I have HP Tuner Pro, and NGK/NTK AFR. I'm trying to tie the two together but I'm not having much luck. I can link the Wide Band to HP Tuners but when I'm datalogging the reported AFR in HP Tuners is WRONG... The display for my W/B shows that the engine is right at 16AFR, and the reported # in HP Tuners is showing 14.9...

I did use the Excel spreadsheet from "The tuning school" and set custom parameters for my W/B-as found here; https://www.google.com/search?q=tuni...ient=firefox-b

It gave me the following data; 0.714285714 + 9. When I put that info in it seems like HP tuners is reporting close to what the W/B display is showing at idle, but the further off the two get, the further off HP Tuners is reporting. Like above-16 showing on the display, and HP Tuners still showing 14.9.

I'm not sure I grounded it all correctly. I had 3, yes THREE grounds to deal with. 1 was power for the W/B display. The other was a BLACK SIGNAL GROUND, and the last I hooked up to position #5 on my interface connector. I grounded all 3 of these together through my cigarette lighter plug that I'm using to supply power & ground. Yes, I'm certain I have the grounds on the (-) side of the plug. Can anyone please give me some guidance here? I'm at a loss. I can't tune without the W/B, and if the W/B is not giving me accurate data, I'm at a freakin' loss.

Thanks to anyone that will respond. If I posted in the wrong section, moderators please move it. Thanks guys.

[1364838952]

Okay, just an update. I went out and separated the grounds such that Pin 5 on my interface is connected ONLY to the SIGNAL ground wire coming out of my NGK/NGT Display. Same problem. the reported AFR in HP Tuners is WWWAAAAAAYYYYYY OOOFFFFFFF from what is on the display itself.

I'm desperate folks. If anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it.

[427 LS3]

Have you tried any of the other transforms? There is a fairly healthy list in the scanner. Brand doesn't matter all that much so long as the transform number is correct. If what the tuning school gave you is wrong, try giving them a call. I'm sure they would have the numbers you need.

In the meantime, I would try some of the other transforms in the scanner and see if one of them matches up better. It doesn't have to be completely perfect either. Within 1 or 2% or so is fine, since the WB, and software both have margins of error too. But 14.9 to 16 is way too much.

[1364838952]

The crazy thing is that I have tried adjusting the output in both directions-higher & lower, and the result is the same. It will be close at low rpm's idling/but as soon as there is a swing in the AFR as shown on the display, the reading in HP Tuners DOES NOT INCREASE. It's like the reading in HP Tuners is just fluctuating between 14.5-14.9 and won't go in either direction outside of those numbers. I have given up. I'm removing the W/B and I'll continue to *attempt* to tune with LTFT & STFT and get it as close as I can.

Anybody looking for an NGK/NTK gauge that WILL NOT INTERFACE WITH HP TUNERS.. I have one for sale.. Cheap. Used ONCE.

[Oleblu]

Enable RTT and tune it that way watching your wideband and change the VE table every WOT pass to get you closer to your commanded PE air/fuel. Tuning part throttle with fuel trims will work just fine with a mild setup.

[1364838952]

I think I've figured it out. I think for some reason HPT software on my laptop is having/creating some SERIOUS issues.
Not only is HPT NOT ACCURATE in what it is reporting, it CAN'T run reliably on my laptop. Today I attempted a data log session. The scanner KILLED my laptop battery from fully charged to completely dead in under 20 minutes of driving. Further, if I have the scanner open, but not logging, and I close my laptop when I reopen it I find the blue screen of death. It will do this EVERY TIME. No other program will cause this blue screen of death like HPT.

Today I was attempting to datalog LTFT and STFT. I have now welded an extra bung into my header so I could still run both narrow bands, and also my wide band... What do I see while driving????? That HPT is showing that I need to add fuel across the board but the entire time my WIDE BAND is showing me on the display that I am in the mid 13's!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, I'm NOT crazy. There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the software, OR, there is something seriously wrong with my BRAND NEW LAPTOP (which seems to run every other program that I use perfectly fine).

I will post up a log file but since HPT WILL NOT log my wide band accurately, all I can show you is a log file where HPT shows I need to ADD fuel to my VE table (across the board) even though I'm already RICH in all the cells it wants me to add fuel. Truck will not idle. W/B shows excessively RICH at idle to the point the engine stumbles, and then stalls. HPT WILL NOT log any of that. It still shows I need to ADD FUEL in the idle cells. The truck will NOT IDLE and the W/B is showing that it drops into the 10's right before the motor stalls. HPT logs NONE OF THIS. It simply shows that LTFT and STFT are BOTH wanting more fuel.

What would you guys do? Delete HPT and re-install? My thoughts-if it was NOT RELIABLE the first time, what assurances do I have that it will work the next time???? What if I reinstall it and it fails again shortly after installation without me realizing it and it corrupts all of my work AGAIN? I'm a little stressed so I'm going to take a minute and drink a beer and unwind a little bit.

I was just logging on the ride home from work and was literally screaming at the top of my lungs about my W/B showing what was really happening and HPT not seeing, or catching, or logging, ANY of that. At this point, the only way I can show you guys this is to record with my cell phone and then post that video on Youtube or something. Maybe if I can figure out WHY HPT won't report my W/B readings accurately I can solve all of the other problems as well.

I'm breathing slowly while counting down from 10 to 1... No wonder why I could NOT get this tune dialed in just using the narrowbands before. It makes complete sense now that the more tuning I attempted, the WORSE the vehicle ran. My wideband is showing me the TRUTH.

[1364838952]

Here is the log. Please note the engine is stalling every time I come to a stop. Maybe you can see it in the file.

If you look at 6:06 you will see DEAD RICH, and engine stalls. At least HPT was able to catch that.. W/B showed mid 10's at that point.

[evilstuie]

I think I've figured it out. I think for some reason HPT software on my laptop is having/creating some SERIOUS issues.

What would you guys do? Delete HPT and re-install? My thoughts-if it was NOT RELIABLE the first time, what assurances do I have that it will work the next time???? What if I reinstall it and it fails again shortly after installation without me realizing it and it corrupts all of my work AGAIN? I'm a little stressed so I'm going to take a minute and drink a beer and unwind a little bit.

I was just logging on the ride home from work and was literally screaming at the top of my lungs about my W/B showing what was really happening and HPT not seeing, or catching, or logging, ANY of that. At this point, the only way I can show you guys this is to record with my cell phone and then post that video on Youtube or something. Maybe if I can figure out WHY HPT won't report my W/B readings accurately I can solve all of the other problems as well.

I'm breathing slowly while counting down from 10 to 1... No wonder why I could NOT get this tune dialed in just using the narrowbands before. It makes complete sense now that the more tuning I attempted, the WORSE the vehicle ran. My wideband is showing me the TRUTH.

Two things I'd do (I'm just a noob also so take it with a grain of salt):

1. Check that the wideband calculation is correct, and matches your wideband sensor/controller ( there are tutorial videos for this on youtube i think)
There is a formula you need to put in for your AFR/Lambda reading as well as the AFR error% I believe, and it varies between sensors.

2. What are the laptop specs and OS? I had a Celeron running Windows 10 and it doesn't last long logging either. I'd probably format the laptop, whack Windows 7 on there. Not install anything else that isn't needed and then reinstall HPT and see if it improves.

[5FDP]

Never used that kind of wideband, only had AEM's that worked for me.

Did you not have the wideband being logged in that last log?

I only see the commanded AFR in there.

[1364838952]

No, I was not logging the W/B in that log file. Earlier I had decided to remove it.. When I was putting the W/B back into it's original box I found the bung that came with the wideband and decided to weld it in. I then put the wideband in and just put the display into my ashtray so I could see it while driving. I will plug the W/B back into the interface for a log tomorrow morning.

Evil-I have watched this video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMalD15mOg4&t=57s
and followed his words/actions to a "T". I also found the "Tuning School" Excel spread sheet calculator and followed the instructions there. The #'s that the calculator predicts MATCH what is already in the drop down menu in the channels table. I'm dead-nuts sure that the parameters are correct. For whatever reason, HPT REFUSES to report the same #'s my display is showing.

What did you guys think about the engine going DEAD RICH right before stalling? Any ideas as to why that is happening? Is it that the computer is trying to prevent the stall so it's splashing a bunch of fuel to try and keep the motor running? Should I be lowering BASE RUNNING AIRFLOW to try and lean it out, or drop the #'s in my VE table in the idle areas to lean it out?

[evilstuie]

What did you guys think about the engine going DEAD RICH right before stalling? Any ideas as to why that is happening? Is it that the computer is trying to prevent the stall so it's splashing a bunch of fuel to try and keep the motor running? Should I be lowering BASE RUNNING AIRFLOW to try and lean it out, or drop the #'s in my VE table in the idle areas to lean it out?

Any chance it's caused by the PCM thinking the vehicle is going faster than it is?
I just checked the log and it's not recording a speed reading.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

Every once in a while hpt installs corrupt. It happens on windows randomly an a complete wipe is usually the way to go. You can still save your tunes by relocating them to an external file or the desktop.
What are your computer specifications? The new v3 isn't very forgiving on my older machines, not sure why just is slow and some other things happened I can really explain.

[1364838952]

Tomorrow I will wipe my computer clean and install HPT again. I will try it again from there and hopefully this will fix the issue..

[1364838952]

drive home 2-1-18.hpl

Well, here is the drive home with the WB registering FALSE information in HPT. As you can see the W/B is showing that the engine is both idling, and running, rich and yet long term fuel trims are showing that MORE fuel is needed. Also, the W/B # that is being reported in HPT is at least 1/2 point lower than what is showing on the display, and again, stops tracking at all if the engine goes lean for any reason. The display will show that the engine is lean, but the # being reported in HPT is artificially low. So, the W/B # being reported is off by 1/ 2 point when the actual AFR is between 14 & 15, but will not accurately track (bigger margin of error) if the actual AFR is outside of that range.

At this point I reverted back to a stock VE table for a 6.0 and now the truck idles and drives normally, if not just a tad rich under load, and also at idle. I do notice that the engine goes momentarily lean on throttle tip in. I assume this means an issue with transient fueling. I will address that issue ONLY after I can get some accurate data out of HPT. Until that point it's just "garbage in-garbage out".

Still have not deleted the software and re-installed. I will try that next. Hopefully that will fix whatever glitch I'm experiencing.

[Ben C]

Post the specs of the wide bands 0 to 5v output.
I would be measuring the voltage going into the interface before reinstalling any software

[1364838952]

Brilliant idea Ben! I will use my DVOM to check voltage at the green signal wire where it attaches to the HPT Interface with the engine off, I will report back with that reading.

[1364838952]

Okay, I was able to tie my DVOM into the green signal wire and I can see that with the W/B on, and the engine off, and the display showing the highest reading (16 AFR) I am getting only 4.27V on the display. I will now go back to the Tuning School calculator and get my corrected W/B parameters and put them into HPT and see if this fixes the issues.

Just looked everything up and it shows I should be .61 + 9. I have plugged those #'s in and I will do another datalog on the way home today.

[1364838952]

Let's call this test a failure. I was able to make some additional changes to 0.690 + 9, and get #'s in HPT to track what was showing on my display but still HPT will not follow any swings, and is still off if the actual AFR swings either rich or lean.
At the end of this log when I shut the engine off, you can see the # slowly begin to climb until it stops. My display was showing 16-, but HPT only rose to 15.2...?

Any other ideas as to what I can try next to get my WB PROPERLY, ACCURATELY, paired with HPT?????

[mikemm212]

I have the same wideband in my truck. Key on engine off the display always shows 16 but HPT never goes over 15 even though the range in is set to 16max. I also believe it does not change as fast in hpt as it does on the display. I assume because the signal has to go through the display then to the MPVI so it takes a little longer? Haven't compared it to narrow band readings yet.

[rpturbo]

I run a NGK as well. It is one of the best widebands out there. Is your a Ballenger or a real NGK? I just had my computer crash, and I lost everything. I will be working on setting mine back up in the scanner soon and will let you know how it goes. I know on the newer version of HPT, they no longer have that W/B as a option.