Engine 305 tbi to 24x pcm 411

[ksa2000]

Hello I have a 305 engine I want to use 24x pcm 411 Does it need a program? Is there a hp tuners file here and what should be changed in pcm?

[5FDP]

Are you switching to port fuel injection too?

Because I doubt you can make the TBI work ever. Also all the other tuning will be custom and will take some time to dial everything in for your 305 engine.

[ksa2000]

Are you switching to port fuel injection too?

Because I doubt you can make the TBI work ever. Also all the other tuning will be custom and will take some time to dial everything in for your 305 engine.

Thanks. I've compiled all the tools to work
But the PCM needs to adjust the timing of ignition and fuel
s-l1600.jpgs-l1000.jpgتنزيل.jpgcoils.jpg1999-02 LS1 Cable Throttle Engine Management Harness - Large.JPG

[5FDP]

Sounds like you are on the right path then.

Most guys start with a P01 computer and use a 2002 Chevy Express Van 5.7 file as a starting point. From there you can change the cylinder volume, injector data and then tune the rest from there.

[ksa2000]

Thank
If someone has done this before he has a file system we hope to put it here to look at

[Fast4.7]

No point in starting with the 5.7L calibration when the 5.0L was also offered in the same year Express van with an 0411.

[Fast4.7]

BUT...I also see coil per cylinder which means you need to start with something like a 2002 4.8L tune and copy in tables from the 5.0L tune.

[ksa2000]

I will have some trouble with pcm

[mowton]

You can start with any 2000+ Fbody PCM/File. As 5FDP states change the cyl vol and injector data to start. When you change the Cyl vol, the VE table will automatically be changed so if you want to keep the stock table (not sure why because you will be remapping anyways) then save the table(s) and change the vol, save/open the new file and paste back the table(s) you saved.

Valve timing (injection timing) may require tweaking as a start and ignition timing for sure as SBC timing is much different than the modern LS1. What year 305?

Ed M

[anniversaryss]

You can start with any 2000+ Fbody PCM/File. As 5FDP states change the cyl vol and injector data to start. When you change the Cyl vol, the VE table will automatically be changed so if you want to keep the stock table (not sure why because you will be remapping anyways) then save the table(s) and change the vol, save/open the new file and paste back the table(s) you saved.

Timing will and valve timing (injection timing) may require tweaking as a start as well as the timing in a SBC is much different than the modern LS1. What year 305?

Ed M

How is injection timing different?

And would the cylinder volume of a 355 be .7271?

[mowton]

Injection timing changes could be needed based on the differences between the cam specs of the old lt1 (unknown) vs the LS1 cam....I said it may need changing, would have to do the math.

As far as cylinder volume you are correct ....(355 CI X 0.0163871) = 5.82 litres / 8 cyl = .72717

Ed M

[ksa2000]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-2002-C...g:OvIAAOSwt5hY

DSC05444.jpg
s-l1600 (1).jpg
What is the difference between all of them holding the same number

[anniversaryss]

Injection timing changes could be needed based on the differences between the cam specs of the old lt1 (unknown) vs the LS1 cam....I said it may need changing, would have to do the math.

As far as cylinder volume you are correct ....(355 CI X 0.0163871) = 5.82 litres / 8 cyl = .72717

Ed M

Are you saying my current cam specs vs the ls1 to create a new EOIT?

[Danspeed1]

Injection timing changes could be needed based on the differences between the cam specs of the old lt1 (unknown) vs the LS1 cam....I said it may need changing, would have to do the math.

As far as cylinder volume you are correct ....(355 CI X 0.0163871) = 5.82 litres / 8 cyl = .72717

Ed M

Two questions in regard to this tune file. I am doing a similar swap; sort of. I am adding a 0411 to a 72 Big Block using the 24x reluctor from a 5.3 Vortec.

I was under the impression that changing the cylinder volume only changed the "expected" air flow so the engine doesn't go into limp mode, but didn't actually change the air volume calculations. I am asking this because on a stroked engine, many times you won't change the displacement values and start with the base map. The engine will be lean but will still run until you dial in your MAF and MAP values.

Second Question... How would the injector timing change and if so what table would you use to adjust it? I've only tuned a couple of cars but all of them have had decent sized cams. The cam timing is always somewhat different and I've never had an issue. Am I leaving something on the table here?

Not trying to be a smart ass I really don't have the experience to answer the question properly. Would appreciate if you could set the record straight for both of us.

Thanks,
Dan

[mowton]

Two questions in regard to this tune file. I am doing a similar swap; sort of. I am adding a 0411 to a 72 Big Block using the 24x reluctor from a 5.3 Vortec.

I was under the impression that changing the cylinder volume only changed the "expected" air flow so the engine doesn't go into limp mode, but didn't actually change the air volume calculations. I am asking this because on a stroked engine, many times you won't change the displacement values and start with the base map. The engine will be lean but will still run until you dial in your MAF and MAP values.

Second Question... How would the injector timing change and if so what table would you use to adjust it? I've only tuned a couple of cars but all of them have had decent sized cams. The cam timing is always somewhat different and I've never had an issue. Am I leaving something on the table here?

Not trying to be a smart ass I really don't have the experience to answer the question properly. Would appreciate if you could set the record straight for both of us.

Thanks,
Dan

Dan,

In Gen III the cylinder volume is used exclusively for VE calculations. The PCM needs to know the cylinder volume so it can calculate the airmass being drawn in based on a complex formula using MAP, Temp, RPM etc. Based on that airmass calculation, it then can calculate the fuel mass and per the injector specs, calculate an IPW to provide just the right recipe....Experiment -- save the VE tabel (excel) from your tune file. Modify the Cylinder Volume setting.....save the file under a new name and reopen. COmpare the two VE tables...they will be different because based on cylinder size, the expected vol (or mass) or air will be more or less depending on which way you went.

Again, I am not sure yet if there is any difference between the Gen III cam events and the stock LT1 cam but in the Engine>Fuel>Injector control>Injection Timing is a set of tables for developing what is called End of Injection Time (EOIT). The PCM then can back calculate the amount of injection time need based on the IPW vs fuel mass requirement to arrive at a Start Of Injection Time (SOIT) The two settings are Boundary (latest an injection can ocurr) and the Normal which defines earlier EOIT's as the engine temperature gets colder to promote additional fuel evaporation time to improve fuel mixing at idle and low cruise. Depending on Intake cam opening times these values may need to be moved around to meet the same evaporation time. GM's injection startegy is to inject against the back of a hot intake valve to promote evaporation. liquid fuel does not burn very efficiently.

Ed M

[Fast4.7]

Injection timing is known on GMs 305 and 350 Vortecs. Granted it is specd for the tiny 191/196 @ .050 cam they run.

[mowton]

Injection timing is known on GMs 305 and 350 Vortecs. Granted it is specd for the tiny 191/196 @ .050 cam they run.

what LSA...assume someting like 116 or 117?

Ed M

Update -- assuming 116 there is only about 2 degrees difference to IVO so all is good with the stock EOIT settings....thanks for the input

even at 111 we are still only about 7 degrees off at .050 so still should be OK. IVC is about 20 degrees sooner so alittle less time to get the injection done
but again s/b good to go. Once you are up and running you can play with a couple of degrees and see if it makes a difference on the wideband....it will tell you the effciency of the mixture/burn.

[Oleblu]

305/350 Vortec PN 10241264

Intake Duration @ .050: 191
Exhaust Duration @ .050: 196
Intake Lift (w/1.5): 414
Exhaust Lift (w/1.5): 442
Lobe Separation: 111

From a post on Pacific p

I'm not sure the tbi engines had that cam though. Also it's worth noting the tbi swirl port heads are a far cry from the vortec 96-2002 heads. Its very likely the engine will want a few degrees more total advance than the vortecs are happy with. Were as most people with vortec heads run 29-32* total i wouldnt doubt if the tbi heads were happy with 36-38* hope the project goes well.

[Danspeed1]

Dan,

In Gen III the cylinder volume is used exclusively for VE calculations. The PCM needs to know the cylinder volume so it can calculate the airmass being drawn in based on a complex formula using MAP, Temp, RPM etc. Based on that airmass calculation, it then can calculate the fuel mass and per the injector specs, calculate an IPW to provide just the right recipe....Experiment -- save the VE tabel (excel) from your tune file. Modify the Cylinder Volume setting.....save the file under a new name and reopen. COmpare the two VE tables...they will be different because based on cylinder size, the expected vol (or mass) or air will be more or less depending on which way you went.

Again, I am not sure yet if there is any difference between the Gen III cam events and the stock LT1 cam but in the Engine>Fuel>Injector control>Injection Timing is a set of tables for developing what is called End of Injection Time (EOIT). The PCM then can back calculate the amount of injection time need based on the IPW vs fuel mass requirement to arrive at a Start Of Injection Time (SOIT) The two settings are Boundary (latest an injection can ocurr) and the Normal which defines earlier EOIT's as the engine temperature gets colder to promote additional fuel evaporation time to improve fuel mixing at idle and low cruise. Depending on Intake cam opening times these values may need to be moved around to meet the same evaporation time. GM's injection startegy is to inject against the back of a hot intake valve to promote evaporation. liquid fuel does not burn very efficiently.

Ed M

Ed,

Thank you for the explanation. I am definitely going to give that a try. I guess ultimately the VE tables can be adjusted for that additional air flow, so if you were to leave the cylinder size alone essentially you would have a VE table that looks like a tremendously efficient 5.3 as opposed to a 7.4. I pulled the VE table to start off the 7.4 file and adjusted my cylinder size. I appreciate you putting it into perspective for me and now it makes total sense. Come to think of it, in order to scale your tune file you would adjust the cylinder size so I can see how it can have an effect on the scale of the VE tables.

As far as the SOIT tuning I would love to hear more about this. I would say a good portion of this site is tuning for larger cams. I wonder how much of an effect on idle quality and drivability adjusting those tables would make. I haven't had an opportunity to take a look at any tables yet but I am interested in knowing if adjusting them is a wild guess or is there a strategy behind how to get them dialed in correctly?

Dan

[It Will Run.Maybe]

how do u program the tps and iac to work of the tpi to work?