Hellcat "Black-key" not allowing fuel to go "CL - power enrichment"

[Lidio Iacobelli]

Hey guys,

On my shop Hellcat,, just to mess around a bit recently out of curiosity, I tried to see what the "black key" did to the cars power output while on the Dyno. Especially since HP-tuners has access to the parameter that gives us control of what the black-key and valet mode can do. So I took the "mode-2" (black key) settings under Driver demand and for the heck of it I knocked the whole thing down another 15% to start out with.

This particular car is on e85 fuels and about 16.5 psi boost. 130# etc,.. It has no problems at all with the "RED key" -- starts great, idles and runs great, and makes about 860-rwhp like this. And has no trouble going into "Closed loop fuel control or enrichment" at WOT as the pedal gets about 2/3 the way down while Flooring the pedal. As its supposed too it goes from a commanded Lambda of 1.0 right down to .83 for WOT,, and trims a little as it ramps up thru the revs. Been this way for about a year and has been very good.

With the black key the pedal and throttle positions still go full WOT, no problems there, but the supercharger bypass is clearly limiting boost to about only 3-4psi. And it never went into any power enrichment at all from about 2600rpm to 4300rpm... As soon as I seen that the commanded lambda was still 1.0 while at WOT,,, I lifted and didn't rev it any higher.

Not sure if there is something hidden or if I missed something, or maybe at only 3-4psi boost isn't enough to command power enrichment? I don't intend to beat on it with the black-key really anyway,, but once I seen we had control of its power out put with that key,, i wanted to see what it did and how it worked. But now of course I'd like to see why it won't command a WOT lambda?


Thanks in advance for any input.

[Higgs Boson]

put your driver demand table back to stock and try again.....

[Lidio Iacobelli]

Higgs,

In HP-tuners under "TQ management / Driver demand section", I've not touched anything in there other then "mode 2 Multiplier" (listed as black key), this is the one that I lowered 15% right off the bat to see what it would do to a Hellcat that has much more power then stock. All other tables in there are left alone other then the Pedal WOT voltage is lowered to 2.48v,,, and I've raised the "MAX FW Tq" up quite a bit... but this has all been in place previously and works perfect with the RED key in use, and goes into "CL power enrichment" with no trouble at about 1/2 pedal input.

Thank you

[* _ *]

is the red key containing a custom tune and you're applying the red key's tune to the black key with a 15% reduction for power across all values?

[Lidio Iacobelli]

I've only custom tuned this car with the RED key from day one. I only recently put the black key in it just to see what it would do on the dyno being that its now 850+rwhp when on the RED key.

I assumed the tune file is the same with the RED key and the BLACK key? all I thought the black key did was reduce power by limiting boost?

I'm not sure now,,, is there more to this with the two different keys? I just assumed the "Mode 2 multiplier" was all that got used or changed at with the black key?

And yes,, all I did was take the mode 2 mult. and lowered it another 15% to see what it would do.

[curt@injected]

I've only custom tuned this car with the RED key from day one. I only recently put the black key in it just to see what it would do on the dyno being that its now 850+rwhp when on the RED key.

I assumed the tune file is the same with the RED key and the BLACK key? all I thought the black key did was reduce power by limiting boost?

I'm not sure now,,, is there more to this with the two different keys? I just assumed the "Mode 2 multiplier" was all that got used or changed at with the black key?

And yes,, all I did was take the mode 2 mult. and lowered it another 15% to see what it would do.

I've still not been able to figure it out, although I haven't really had time. The first few we tried it on worked great but I've run into a few which refuse to go into pe. I'm digging deeper now for a customer since he wants it to work on a build we are about to do. It's a cool feature when it works.

[Lidio Iacobelli]

I've still not been able to figure it out, although I haven't really had time. The first few we tried it on worked great but I've run into a few which refuse to go into pe. I'm digging deeper now for a customer since he wants it to work on a build we are about to do. It's a cool feature when it works.

To be honest I've not pursue'd this anymore (black key) after it didn't go into Power-Enrichment at WOT.... I only tried the black key as a goof to see what it would do to a "modded" hellcat (900+rwhp) and didn't try or experiment with anything else after that.. My summer season has kicked in here for me here in Michigan, so I'm back to being active with; driving and racing my hellcat, so its RED key only right now : )

If I try again or anyone comes up with anything,, I'll be sure to keep an eye on, or post in this thread.

[Speedy!]

Older thread but something I wanted to add to the discussion....on my stock Hellcat I seem to remember it staying at 1.0 lambda at WOT with the black key and have it logged as well. Really surprised me the first time I saw it as we'd always get out of it on previous builds at any boost without it richening up. I get that you guys are trying to do something different with the black key, but it must be ignoring the PE tables in black key mode.

This has probably been solved since this thread, but definitely something to consider on a Hellcat with increased boost. It will see increased boost in black key mode as well and be at 1.0 lambda (likely bad) unless the boost is dialed back down, or the PE issue resolved.

[spoolboy]

What is the throttle blade position when the pedal is at WOT with the black key?

[Speedy!]

76.x% that it typically shows at WOT for pedal and 86% for throttle. The boost appears to be what is limited in black key mode via a torque reduction table, but it's a multiplier. Thus I think you need to be mindful of what those settings are when you're at increased boost.

[toxicperformance]

Hi friends, old post but intersting thing

does any one try to lower the boost into the black key supercharger bypass vale via ?
our hellcat has 10 10% lower and 2.65 upper wich should set up between 17 to 19 psi but would need good quality fuel as a Q16 and be awesome if we keep this setup but control the boost down to 13 14 psi for the black key and pump gas use

Any thread about boost control via bypassvalve as the smooth boost control does ?

[Speedy!]

Yes there is a black key multiplier that can do this. My car makes 17psi on red key and I set to 5-6 on black.