Prestartup tune on 408 guidance

[apex2112]

Helping a friend with his new 408 build in a Silverado.
Motor has 90mm throttle body, aftermarket intake manifold(Chinese knockoff), 60lbs Deatschwerks injectors, not sure of the cam specs he said "its a mild cam with .600 lift" and compression ratio is 11.1
Can someone look over the tune file to see if the changes I've made so far are on the right track, so that hopefully this thing will start and I'll be able to begin adjusting.
I've done some stockish tuning, this is my 1st attempt at new injectors,larger motor and throttle body.

Thanks
04 2500 408 ve tuning.hpt

[5FDP]

I'd return the VE to stock, it's likely to be rich with the much larger injectors. It looks like you may have just added 15-20% to the whole table for no reason.

[apex2112]

Yes I added to the VE didn't want it to be lean, thinking it would be safer that way. not having any experience with larger than stock size motor.
One thing I had read suggested lowering the VE in the lower rpm areas with a larger than stock cam is that ok?
All the setting for the injectors and throttle body look ok?

[5FDP]

Adding to the VE doesn't hurt if say the injector size didn't change but in this case the injectors are now like 70-80% larger so adding even more fuel to the VE isn't exactly required.

It should start and run on the stock VE pretty well. Dialing in the VE with a wideband from there will be fairly easy.

I don't have the injector data for those but if you took the data straight from DW it should be right.

[apex2112]

Yes I got the injector info right from DW.
But I'm just now finding out the fuel system has been converted to return style so I will need to adjust the flow rate right?
anything else that needs changing?

[cobaltssoverbooster]

if its return style with a 1:1 regulator then you need to set the flow rate to the constant advertised flow for the rail pressure being run per DW information.
also you will have to modify the injector offset information. here you will find the data for the pressure you are running on the regulator and copy the column for pressure and paste it into every column of the offset table so each pressure value in the ecu will have the same voltage offsets.

[apex2112]

I have made the changes for the injectors based on 58psi fuel pressure and return style.
Latest tune file attached and injector data from DW
Did I do it correctly? I also returned the VE table to stock per 5FDP's suggestion.
04 2500 408.hptGM injector data 18u-60.xls

[apex2112]

well we started the truck had to give it throttle to keep it running.
tune file and log attached, didn't have the wide band connected and graphs and charts not completely setup yet.
The throttle position doesn't seem right, and fuel trims are way negative.
It has an x-link.
Not sure how to interpret the data and what changes to make to keep it running without giving it throttle.
I would like to have it somewhat idle so that I can start getting the fueling corrected with the wide band.
thanks
408 2nd start.hpl
04 2500 408.hpt

[5FDP]

Drive by wire will never show 0% throttle because the blade is the IAC, so it has to stay open to keep it running. Anywhere from 10-20% is where it could be, some engines are different.

It's possible that the fuel trims are working right and it's that rich still. You may have to take 5% out of the MAF and VE to see if the short term trims come back down and reset the LTFT. You may have to add to the base running airflow to keep it running without throttle input and then you can start getting the rest of the airflow model corrected with a wideband.

[apex2112]

Is the injector data setup correct?
I attached the DW injector info in post #7.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

as long as that regulator sees a vacuum signal....yes its setup correctly

[apex2112]

No I'm not sure that it does have a vacuum connected to the regulator.
He told me it was converted from returnless to return and pressure was set at 58psi.
So what do I need to change to make it correct?

[matty b]

If its return, the regulator needs to be vacuum referenced or you need to set the IFR static like it would be with a non-return system. I wouldn't recommend it though and would recommend putting a vac line on the regulator.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

what matty said is correct. you need to find out if it is plumbed to a vacuum source. thats why i have mentioned the vacuum source twice now (the first time wasnt direct, i mentioned 1:1 regulator control assuming you know that meant vacuum supplied regulator)

if you have a vacuum referenced regulator then what you have now is the correct settings.
if you dont have one, then you need to copy over the data as supplied from DW. You will not be selecting just the 58 psi data, as the regulator will not hold a constant pressure difference between manifold and fuel rail at 58 psi. the stock tables account for change in rail pressure to manifold pressure. its commonly referred to as fuel rail pressure delta (pressure delta for short). Stock and non-vacuum referenced regulators are varying pressure delta because the manifold pressure changes but the fuel rail remains the same. the changing manifold pressure causes a change in injector flow which has to be accounted for in the ecu. when the vacuum line is connected then the regulator adjusts the pressure 1:1 (1 lb increase in manifold will give you 1 lb increase in fuel pressure). these referenced systems are called static pressure delta systems. under this system the rail pressure setting will be the same all the time which is why we change the values to only reflect 58 psi (58 psi being your target KOEO rail pressure).

so there is the description of the two systems and why we calibrate the injectors differently for each. your job now is to find out if it is vacuum referenced or not and apply the correct data.

[apex2112]

Cobalt thank you for clearing that up for me.
The learning curve is steep, and I greatly appreciate all the help.
I will find out how the regulator is setup, and if it does not have vacuum I'll get him to change it that way.
I will reduce the MAF and VE by 5% and add 2 more grams to the idle air flow for the next start up, as suggested by 5FDP.
Hopefully it will be a bit closer to holding an idle on it's own.
Thanks again for everyone's help.

[apex2112]

Well I made some progress getting this thing to idle.
I verified that the pressure regulator is setup correctly, so that side of things is good.
I had to take about 25% more fuel out and add 4-5 more grams to the base running air flow along with some more timing.
I can now hook up the wide band and work on the fueling more.
Still having some issues getting the charts and graphs setup for the idle tuning.
If someone could take a look at the log file and let me know if they see anything out of the ordinary.
I was able to get it to idle on it's own but it doesn't seem real stable.
Current tune and log files attached, again thanks for the help.
04 2500 408 change maf and ve 5 percennt lower.hpt
408 9th start lower ve high air flow.hpl

[apex2112]

Got the wide band hooked up and made some adjustments.
The fueling is starting to come inline but still need some more work.
The in park and neutral seems pretty good but when I put it in drive and start to move it doesn't seem to want to idle.
If I just put it in drive and hold the brake it seems fine too.
Adjusting tune file and a short log attached.
04 2500 408 ve tuning.hpt
408 7st start ve short.hpl