How The Distance Tables Work

[veeefour]

Emission Reduction thresholds are during a cold start. We currently do not have the threshold tables on the S197's, but it could be coming up with our first gen coyote strategy updates.
You can zero the Emission Reduction MP and not have to worry about it.

I suggest setting the Emission Reduction just like Optimal Stability - we no longer care about emission with a tune.

[Thatwhite5.0]

What is your understanding of this table?

I have heard a couple conflicting explanations. I have an issue where at WOT, ~5000rpm, despite VCT still being in OP mode, MPOP starts sharing weight with MP7

I know exactly what you're talking about.

In Rslo's case, his car completely stopped following op angles at 4000 rpm and ran fuel economy distances wot because the wot load table was .3 more than his air load.
I believe his car is using this table because he has CLIP/ADD Mode disabled.

The table itself is another OP threshold. I see a lot of people increase the values but the table is not asking for max load. Its asking for the load WOT begins. I normally lower these or leave them stock. Our s197 mainly refers to the tables in the vct tab.

Mp 7 is always trying to pull weight. As we tune our cars and adjust OP angles. We see more power retarding evc more from stock values. The closer your OP evc is to 20. The higher the chances at mp 7 will take weight around the rpm your OP ivo is -30.
What happens us when you floor it, I'll just use random cam angles. So we go wot at 3000, ivo -45 evc 12. At 4500 we retard evc to 16 and hold it at 16. Then we always retard ivo.
4000 -40
4500 -35
5000 -30
6000 -20.
So we go wot and 100% is in op. But around 5000 rpm, mp7 starts taking some weight. Then the weight goes back to op. OP angles are too similar to mp7. The reason weight doesn't transfer to 6 is because evc is 30*.
Change the evc for mp7 or OP evc. If you're not using it in fuel eco tables, disable mp7 in the mp config.
If any mp arent in your modes disable them. Less tables adjust.

[CCS86]

So you think that as long as your VCT mode stays OP, the Load at WOT table isn't changing the MP weighting.

You think MP7 steals weight simply because the angles near 5000 rpm are close to the OP angles? That was my theory too. More so that the PCM wasn't commanding MP7 weight, just "happened to be in that neighborhood". But even if the angles aren't being deviated by this, the spark advance is. I ended up running identical bordeline advance in MP7, as I do in OP, so that regardless of MP7 taking weight, everything stays well controlled. Part of me still wants to see MPOP hold full power though

[Thatwhite5.0]

Yes, it's because of the angles. It will take everything related with mp 7 and OP, spark, torque. I'm not sure if it averages everything or how they're combined for final values.
When you were trying different strategies, I cant remember the strat number but there's one with mp 0-3, 9, and OP enabled. Mp 9 has IVO -14 EVC 20. OP keeps 100% of the weight set up that way.
The video card in my laptop messed up on me and I haven't pulled the files. One thing I was putting to the test was the vct fuel eco mapped points. The last few cells are assigning mp 7.
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
7
7
7
Even when I added 8 to the distances. I've kept the last ones 7. I tuned a roush f150 and kept it in op the entire pull.

I was the same way with wanting it to stay 100% in op. Real picky about my own. I was so picky, I disabled op and I'm running 0-8 and 10. I changed my evc angles a little bit as well and gave torque/inverse a make over. Ivo angles are stock, my evc angles are 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 30, 20, 20, 20.

I've disabled 5, 6, 7, has 8, 10 and op enabled to keep weight in op. And used distance tables to keep it running stock like.
My fuel eco was 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 3, 3, 3
Mp 5 : -10, 40
distance 4.2 : -10, 36
Mp 6 : -20, 30
Distance 4.4 : -20, 32
Mp 7 -30, 20
Distance 4.6 : -30, 28

Changing evc in mp 8 to 14* or so would of gotten evc a little more stock like. It carried op 100% though!

I'll have to mess with it some more and pull the roush file from my broke laptop. I've been running open loop messing with that lately.

[GapRider]

Gaprider, your VCT Emission Reduction and Optimal Stability Mapped Points need to be zeroed out or stock. Both of them will call for mapped point 10. There are tricks to using Optimal Stablilty to an advantage.

Emission Reduction thresholds are during a cold start. We currently do not have the threshold tables on the S197's, but it could be coming up with our first gen coyote strategy updates.
You can zero the Emission Reduction MP and not have to worry about it. Or use MP 10 and the angles associated would be advanceing the intake between -30 and 0 degrees.

Optimal Stability is used mainly during decel by advancing the intake between -30 to 0 degrees. This creates a type of resistance or load against the motor to slow it down. Since it's used on decel, Optimal Stablilty will occur during most manual car's shift, cruising and WOT. Stock Op Stab table also uses MP 10. The order is 0, 10, 0, 0, 0. With small changes to cam angles or adjusting the Distance Tables. A high RPM shift can be perfected, instead of the intake advance 30 degrees and the exhaust taking resting position. Adding in MP 7, order now 0, 10, 7, 0, 0. None of us have the EVC at zero at all in our OP Angles, but it is still needed for full decel. During a high RPM shift, you can have IVO -30, EVC 15 or using a different mapped point in place of 7, you can have IVO -22, EVC 12. I mean really, which ever combinations you can come up with


So gap rider, return your opstab and emission reduction to mapped points to stock or zero out emission reduction. They're really calling for some strange angles during a shift. What mods do you have done too btw?

Your Intake Cam Advance Limit - in the 1000 RPM and 1200 RPM, between 70* and 220* F, set those angles to -40*. In the 1500 and 2500 RPM columns between 70 and 250*, set those set those cells to -50.
Below that table, Intake Cam Retard Phasing Limit
set 1000+RPM and 70*+ all to 40*.. 16 cells all to 40*


Here's a little more you can change or anyone can change to get a better running first gen coyote.


Mapped Point Config, Disable Mapped Point 9 and 11 by changing their 1 value to a 0.

VCT Op Enable Pedal
Pedal Position
1000 89
2000 89
3500 80
4000 60
5000 40
6000 30
7000 30
rpm

VCT OP Desired Load
Desired Load
1000 0.85
1500 0.80
2000 0.80
4000 0.7
4500 0.4
6000 0.4
rpm

Go to Airflow > General > Managed Tip-in Switch - 0

Airflow > Electronic Throttle
Pedal Pos WOT Start - 400
Below that table, Tip In Mgmt, Disable it.

Torque Management > General > Oscillation Switch - Disable

Set Torque Limit Timer to 1000

thanks so much for the specific help. I think I got all the changes in the tune and logged some WOT pulls on the way to work and back home.
I think it's staying in OP a lot more but still seeing MP7 weight until about halfway through pull in 2nd gear, almost all OP through pull in 3rd.
I still notice that MP7 weight increases when DesLd goes over 1, what does that mean and do you think DesLD goes over 1 cuz I tweaked my speed density tables towards slightly more cyl mass where I was getting IPC?

[veeefour]

You need to log Torque Source - if Traction Control is triggered VCT will automatically go to Fuel Economy.That is why you have strange MP weight activity.

Your spark is also hitting Cyl. Pressure Limit.

You are also hitting your max calc MAP - that is why your LOAD goes over 1 which is not right for N/A car (unless you have cams).

[GapRider]

You need to log Torque Source - if Traction Control is triggered VCT will automatically go to Fuel Economy.That is why you have strange MP weight activity.

Your spark is also hitting Cyl. Pressure Limit.

You are also hitting your max calc MAP - that is why your LOAD goes over 1 which is not right for N/A car (unless you have cams).

thanks for the insight v4, let me dig in

[RSlo]

In electronic throttle tab, disable the shuffle switch to prevent strange oscillation.

In your speed density tab. Optimum power load at WOT. Your leaving OP mode at 4000. In this table you increase op load up to 1.9. Lower it it even return it to stock .

Thanks! Yeah table descriptions can be misleading sometimes. I will return that table to stock. I believe my shuffle switch was already disabled.

I?ll report back if that fixes my VCT OP mode fallout issue. First I?m actually going to dyno it as is even though it jumps into FE mode the cam position it ends in the car seems to move pretty good. And seems to be close to some of the VCT OP settings from a Whipple and a D1x tune I stumbled upon.

[GapRider]

Mp 5 : -10, 40
distance 4.2 : -10, 36
Mp 6 : -20, 30
Distance 4.4 : -20, 32
Mp 7 -30, 20
Distance 4.6 : -30, 28

I think I understood everything you talked about but can't figure the part out with the fractional distances. I see them in stock tune too.

update: found where you explained that way earlier in thread

[engineermike]

...Looking at the distance table for 1500 RPM/20% load, there is a "2" in the cell. Look at your VCT Fuel Economy Mapped Points, we have a 2 = 2. Requesting for mapped point 2, IVO - 0 and EVC - 20.

At 3000 RPM, the cell has 2.5 from 20% load. 2.5 is calling for a split between the cam angles you have set on the Fuel Economy Mapped Points. In this case, the IVO is the at the same resting degree for both mapped points 2 and 3. The EVC on mapped point 2 is 20, and mapped point 3 is 30. Now we split the .5 and our EVC angle for 2.5 is 25 degrees.

Hi, I've been trying to learn this by reading these threads and applying it to a stock 2018 5.0 cal. I can't seem to work out how it would ever use Mapped Points above 14. The 2018 stock cal Distance Tables reference Mapped Points from 0 to 14. The Mapped Point index arrays also do not reference anything higher than 14. Yet, I'm quite certain the stock cal uses Mapped Points higher than 14. Can anyone explain to me what I'm missing here?

Thanks!
Mike

[rolls]

Hi, I've been trying to learn this by reading these threads and applying it to a stock 2018 5.0 cal. I can't seem to work out how it would ever use Mapped Points above 14. The 2018 stock cal Distance Tables reference Mapped Points from 0 to 14. The Mapped Point index arrays also do not reference anything higher than 14. Yet, I'm quite certain the stock cal uses Mapped Points higher than 14. Can anyone explain to me what I'm missing here?

Thanks!
Mike

I had the same question, once you plot them all out you quickly realise its for the IMRC on/off. The snap to line then takes over and his how it gets from 14-22

[engineermike]

I think I finally got it. I had a few things going on that added to my confusion.

For one, I understand now that the MP displayed in the log and used for VE/torque/spark is from measured actual cam timing not commanded.

Secondly, my cal from a reputable tuner commands all sorts of disabled mapped points. This threw me for a loop. The pcm still commands the cam timing for the disabled point but reports back an average of surrounding enabled points and I?m assuming uses the VE/spark/torque from those.

Thirdly, the stock 2018 cal doesn?t call for mapped points over I think 9 in FE and OD modes. However, higher mapped points fall right on top of those. I think the IMRC position is what toggles the PCM to use the higher mapped points calibration data even though they weren?t commanded directly.

I think I got the snap to point and like stuff figured out too, but still need to flash a few cals for testing.

[Ethan5.019]

I am attempting my first changes to my stock file for my f150. My goal is to eventually be able to tune my own bolt ons. I am attaching a file that is changed very little from stock mostly changes to the mapped points in FE and OP Stab. Changed the VCT angles on MP0-MP2 since these were the points already commanded by the Distance tables or at least from what I understand. Any help and advice is welcome to get this cal ironed out so that drivability won't suffer with a little chop at idle.

2019F150StockFile1stattempt.hpt

[LightingBlue17]

Okay just trying to make sure I understand how some if this works. Getting there piece by piece haha.

So like the picture I have 4.00 circled in the distance table and that number actually calls out the 4 in the axis I am pointing to which then tells what mapped point to look at which is 9.

This distance table isn't actually referring to MP4 but to row 4 correct? Then if it's 4.5 it would be essentially blending row 4 and 5 together 50/50 and if row 4 was say MP6 and row 5 was MP9 then it would used 50% of MP6 and 50% of MP9 correct?


Screenshot_20211107-135054_Chrome.jpg

[metroplex]

For the Optimum Power IVO and EVC angles, how are those read in terms of crank angle?
let's say IVO is -50 and EVC is +30.

Is that EVO 310*, and EVC 390*?

[engineermike]

As I understand it the base or “0” number is defined elsewhere in the same tab. I think on a Gen 3 coyote it’s 340 for intake and 369 for exhaust. The timing is added to or subtracted from that number. At 0,0 the Gen 3 cams defined the old way would be on a 115 lsa, 5 deg advanced.