2017 zl1 max and peak torque line up no matter what I change and closes throttle

[lt1z350]

So far most of my tune is working out well except I cannot get my peak engine torque to get a 50-100 lbs separation over the max engine torque so it keeps closing the throttle some. Its random too sometimes will command about full throttle other times its 68-75 percent tps. I have redone all the virtual torque about 10 percent higher in all maps as running 93 up to e50 as thats most pumps here anyway. By changing the e85 airmass and map tables it now is shifting great again. I found at around 30 percent it will make the trans hit really good but gets a dead pedal feeling above 50 percent and wont even command it higher anyway so found out whats too high for it.
So went back to the 10 percent above I have tried peak torque at 10-20-30 percent higher and nothing is breaking the dead lock on the two tables. Fuel is about in line where I am commanding it a touch rich but have a cold air on the way so not messing with maf yet. So far got timing up a lot in low to mid range and some more at wot and zero kr which is great as see so much false on it when tune was stock. Cam timing is staying somewhat advanced compared to wot settings when throttle is closed but soon as opens all the way the cam will actually over retard if commanding 10 degrees of retard it will show 12 as had many say they tend to over advance so guess thats a good thing. Just cant figure out this torque problem which is causing the throttle to be lazy to open and not all the way. Posting my current tune and a log with a couple pulls two letting it shift and one holding it in manual 3rd at 2700 rpm up to redline so as if was doing a dyno pull in 3rd. Was already over 100 so the road I was on that was about all I wanted to try. I need to do one in 7th but the speed will be crazy so decided on lower gears since on the highway.
the 3rd gear pull is at 7.10 and even put my charts list up as have a bunch of good things being charted even est hp and tq. The weird thing is its random not doing it every time but peak and max torque always dead lock at 879

[paulsmithsr]

Text me 281-450-1498. I have a good tune for that - I will help u too

[TriPinTaZ]

Have you touched the Driver Demand table or Peak Torque table yet? From my tinkering it seems like the DD table has a direct affect on how much torque the ECU thinks you want and how much the car is delivering. So if you leave the 100% pedal position at the stock values but you're making way more torque, due to your mods, than the DD table thinks you want, it will limit the power with Torque Management Advance. And if the Peak Torque table is not increased beyond stock and you exceed this value, it will limit the power by closing the throttle.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but is what I have deduced so far while tuning my cars.

[Ben Charles]

You are correct... it all starts at driver demand, both it and peak Tq needed modded on a stock car

[lt1z350]

Have you touched the Driver Demand table or Peak Torque table yet? From my tinkering it seems like the DD table has a direct affect on how much torque the ECU thinks you want and how much the car is delivering. So if you leave the 100% pedal position at the stock values but you're making way more torque, due to your mods, than the DD table thinks you want, it will limit the power with Torque Management Advance. And if the Peak Torque table is not increased beyond stock and you exceed this value, it will limit the power by closing the throttle.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but is what I have deduced so far while tuning my cars.

Yes I have raised both even redone the whole torque model so now it shifts right again on the e50 I have been running. If look at the log I posted can see it will get up and around wot but slow to open not following my foot at all. It seemed by the log to be quicker when just stood on it got a down shift then running through the gears vrs when I put in manual 3rd at low rpm stood in it and let it pull can see in that shot its open 60 percent most of the time then rides up towards 81 percent. This car will log 99 percent on tps too so even 81 isnt the typical close to 84 percent wot you see on some cars like my old ats or new cts v sport.
I took the ported throttle body off it put stock values back into tune for that and going to log it today. I also brought the peak torque back down some as the more I added the more grief it seemed to cause. So maybe closer to stock numbers will help. I am logging every single torque limit and on the graphs none are crossing another but it gets really close so think its predicting its going to exceed and shutting the throttle some which then makes boost crash. The 5-6 psi is the biggest part of the power drop damn thing wont make the boost if throttle inst open and already down 2 psi from headers swap and still waiting on a lower from weapon-x. I didnt know they keep nothing in stock so my cold air and heat exchangers is taking weeks to make it seems and shipping my lower set up direct from manufacture I assume as they have had my money two weeks now and nothing has shown up. Be nice if when ordered parts you got told built to order up front so had the choice to go elsewhere to buy something.

[lt1z350]

Text me 281-450-1498. I have a good tune for that - I will help u too

I just got to seeing all this I ll give you a shout today and thank you. Starting to wonder if this is on the trans side as I have helped do a manual car and it was fine where mine is still screwy and have the a10.

[TriPinTaZ]

Yes I have raised both even redone the whole torque model so now it shifts right again on the e50 I have been running. If look at the log I posted can see it will get up and around wot but slow to open not following my foot at all. It seemed by the log to be quicker when just stood on it got a down shift then running through the gears vrs when I put in manual 3rd at low rpm stood in it and let it pull can see in that shot its open 60 percent most of the time then rides up towards 81 percent. This car will log 99 percent on tps too so even 81 isnt the typical close to 84 percent wot you see on some cars like my old ats or new cts v sport.
I took the ported throttle body off it put stock values back into tune for that and going to log it today. I also brought the peak torque back down some as the more I added the more grief it seemed to cause. So maybe closer to stock numbers will help. I am logging every single torque limit and on the graphs none are crossing another but it gets really close so think its predicting its going to exceed and shutting the throttle some which then makes boost crash. The 5-6 psi is the biggest part of the power drop damn thing wont make the boost if throttle inst open and already down 2 psi from headers swap and still waiting on a lower from weapon-x. I didnt know they keep nothing in stock so my cold air and heat exchangers is taking weeks to make it seems and shipping my lower set up direct from manufacture I assume as they have had my money two weeks now and nothing has shown up. Be nice if when ordered parts you got told built to order up front so had the choice to go elsewhere to buy something.

If I increased the DD table or Peak Torque table too much it just made more problems for me. Each table has something to do with the other as well. I found that if I increased both at the same rate, I kept running into the same issue. It's like the coefficients are still calculated out and too close to each other in the final calculation therefore leaving the initial issue of throttle limiting in place.

Have you tried stock DD Tables but lightly increasing your Peak Torque table, then data logging. Then try raising the Peak Torque in the area the throttle isn't opening all the way to see if it improves? Your Peak TQ Table seems way high. Also, why the increase in the Virtual Torque Table? If you're on stock heads and cam I wouldn't touch that until last, if at all.

[lt1z350]

If I increased the DD table or Peak Torque table too much it just made more problems for me. Each table has something to do with the other as well. I found that if I increased both at the same rate, I kept running into the same issue. It's like the coefficients are still calculated out and too close to each other in the final calculation therefore leaving the initial issue of throttle limiting in place.

Have you tried stock DD Tables but lightly increasing your Peak Torque table, then data logging. Then try raising the Peak Torque in the area the throttle isn't opening all the way to see if it improves? Your Peak TQ Table seems way high. Also, why the increase in the Virtual Torque Table? If you're on stock heads and cam I wouldn't touch that until last, if at all.

I started with stock dd and other tables and it was terrible limiting the throttle to where was making no boost at all. The last time out it was getting around 80 percent throttle but was so slow to get to it. Nail the throttle see 99 percent commanded and slowly watch it come open until it hit around 5800 rpm then was almost open then shift and held it that log I posted shows it good at about the half way mark. I have raised the dd as the requested axle torque come together with actual and throttle crashes around 99 mph. Heres a screen shot of how it was and look how peak torque and max torque are dead on top of each other so its a limit just like it is in the stock tune. From how I understand it peak should always be above max and if they cross then it limits something throttle timing or boost throttle being the big issue here it seems.
And last I increased the virtual stuff as being on e85 now the trans went to shit. Soft slow shifts as the e85 tables are lower then normal airmass I bet they did it on purpose so if you got a hold of any higher percent of e rather then make any power it just squashed it and that I did. So raising it up made the trans even better then it was stock. It hits like a mild shift kit now where I have them set. the normal side was also low as compared to what the car was making so added a littler there too and the trans liked that too. Thinks more torque so adding pressure and its way better especially light throttle driving where it was really bad even stock. I might even add a touch more in light throttle areas to wake it up more. I dont think any of that is affecting the throttle as I didnt add much to it. I found what was too much and it gives a dead pedal feeling. Really snappy then goes limp for a lot then huge limit so was easy to find what was too much for my combo anyway. Cant wait to get this pulley and get some boost into it.. Headers seems to killed off 2 psi over all with how the throttle is now anyway.zl1 throttle close.PNG

[lt1z350]

You are correct... it all starts at driver demand, both it and peak Tq needed modded on a stock car

Ive seen you guys talk about adding throttle response and have tired adding 10 percent to most of the dd tables not touching any negative values and in a free rev still lazy as hell. Got any advice to make these pop off better? they sound like crap when just rev the car like showing how the long tubes no cats sounds cars just lazy as hell and sure that inst helping when driving it.

[C5 2000]

I would compare with stock file and return things to stock reading and start all over. you have changed lots of parameter.

[lt1z350]

Yea no shit I have part of tuning. I’m not bran new to it so have a good idea what I am doing but obviously these are tricky and having e85 on it you could easily smoke the trans out running around on a stock file this way as trans goes to shit when using those tables. I’m more in the fine tuning of the settings. It will hold the throttle all the way open it’s just lazy getting there. Car pulls like no tomorrow even on the lower boost. I can hit mid 10s on stupid pdr on the street with terrible traction so it’s making power. 80 percent of my changes that might seem weird to some are from the tuning school di book and comparing to two other 2017 zl1 tunes done by big shops that put over 750 whp down. So I know it’s on the right track.

[C5 2000]

Im trying to help, I guess You can start changing Source from GMLAN to Calibration. And I would recommend return Peak Torque and Fast Torque Exit to stock. Also why do you have Torque Shaping Enable as the stock is Disable.

[Higgs Boson]

Also why do you have Torque Shaping Enable as the stock is Disable.

not always

[lt1z350]

I saw some saying that torque shaping made throttle act better so I tried it. A lot of the settings are from proven tunes and or tuning school books so sorry to jump just got frustrated. What does the gmlan to calibration do?? Heres a good one for you all. Doing a 2017 ats 2.0t I have done a bunch of early ones 2013- 2016 camaro or ats no issues. Now this 2017 ats is doing the same shit. Max torque is dropping below delivered torque but on that it is dropping the boost not closing the throttle as I have fast torque exit set high so it wont limit spark or close the throttle so instead it just limits the boost. So now 2 different ecms e80 and e92 but similar and both no matter what is changed I cannot get this max torque to go up. I have even gone back to a stock tune and raised things here and there to make sure I wasnt causing this by a setting and no luck.
A 2017 c7 I looked over a log for someone and saw the same thing and on his when the delivered torque crossed the max torque reading it slammed the car with tons of false kr like 8 degrees at the point it crossed. I told him raise the virtual torque tables in that area and boom it fixed his issues. BUT on this zl1 and the ats I have raised them both 1.25 so 25 percent and that value just wont go up. Im at a loss on it. The zl1 is better but soon as I put a pulley on it and make 14 psi im going to be right back in the same boat when it makes more delivered torque. I am sure one of the guys that is really good has got to have seen this and had to correct it. Higgs didint you go to a blower on the c7? So sure this has become an issue to have to address at some point. any guidance here guys?? About to go join efi live forums and see if can find anything on it over there or join hp academy and pay for it to get access as read some great posts on stuff over there. Seems like some engineers are tuning over there and have answers.

[madcat]

I have a same problems with my LT4 2.0LTG camaro. earlier all calibrations i do with Efilive. Now i buy hp tuners. I thought that zzperfprmance where i buy new EFR turbo help me calibrate over 400 hp, but they write tat 300hp max on wheels. thats joke, because i do from 238hp(this is power for europe) over 310hp(295 on wheels).

If i found some new for torque and throttle i write this theme.

[9secZO6]

I?m having this SAME type issue, max engine and peak torque lining up and maxing at 879ftlbs. Nothing I do seems to work, and it seems a follow up on this thread would help.

Thanks,
John aka JHEBERT on CF

[lt1z350]

I’m guessing that’s the limit of the pid. Sort of how on older e38 we hit 620 I believe delivered torque on that pid. I do know now that one seems extended so maybe hp will do the same on the e92. I don’t know how much that’s affecting anything though I just try to keep them both above delivered torque which on my current mods is creeping up on that. I’m stock heads and cam still and now using 104 octane am knocking on the 9 second door and 140 mph range according to my logs vrs my last 10.50@134 with it holding the 4-5 shift for 2 seconds on the rev limit. I managed 110 in the 1/8 so thinking of you have the peak up higher then what it’s showing it’s not becoming an issue. I have my peak in the 940-1000 range and other then my shift issue that time my throttle seems to be open when I want it and my timing is staying at commanded so no limiting going on. I follow your build some on cf are you having a particular issue? Also saw your on stock fuel system still I may have a chance to grab some injectors for a decent price if interested just message me directly about that.

[Higgs Boson]

log Engine Torque rather than Peak Engine Torque.

[meatbag]

Its a torque limiter in the TCM, unlock the TCM to bump it up

[9secZO6]

Tcm tuned already, they still max at 879ftlbs, and I hit that early on. 18lbs boost at 3krpm and delivered torque just bounces off the max and peak it sounds so pissed you’d think it was running on 6cyls.