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Thread: Eats the porcelain out of the plugs....HELP

  1. #1

    Eats the porcelain out of the plugs....HELP

    2017 Camaro ZL1, cam, headers, port heads, Whipple 2.9, VP109, Alky Control, 19 psi, Denso 5341, ITV24 plug, with competent tuner and very conservative timing. On cylinders 1 and 6 has taken the ground strap once and now the porcelain for a total of three plugs each time. AFR is good. Any ideas? Has always been those two cylinders other look fine. Lean injector??
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    Last edited by scooter k; 07-05-2018 at 04:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner ZeroBoostBuick's Avatar
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    Just a guess... but might have the wrong plug for the application ???

    It either too lean or too hot. So try a colder plug.

  3. #3
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    My guess is cylinder pressures are getting too high or too hot of a plug. At a certain point you can end up with spontaneous pre-ignition where the fuel charge ignites before it's supposed to. This will break spark plugs, and eventually the pistons.

    If you don't have the cam locked out, I'd try retarding the cam timing some and see if it helps.

  4. #4
    ITV24s are a heat range of 8 and more than cold enough. Tuning 101, to much spark and probably to lean. And I would dump the ms109, no need to add the sensitivity of oxygenated fuel into the mix.
    Last edited by NTIMID8; 07-04-2018 at 08:48 AM.

  5. #5
    I have the cam locked out. It did it on 91/meth, 100/meth also.

  6. #6
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    Use NGK plugs or Bosch

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by paulsmithsr View Post
    Use NGK plugs or Bosch
    I did use NGK but my tuner recommended the denso. Did the same thing to the NGK plug.
    Last edited by scooter k; 07-04-2018 at 04:25 PM.

  8. #8
    post a log

  9. #9
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    iridium plugs and boost are no go!

    use bosch or NGK. I usually use a 7 heat range for anything over (let your grandma drive) boost levels. so at 19psi I would have a NGK 7 in appropriately gapped.

    iridium plugs are like TIG torches in the cylinder
    Last edited by lukearmstrong1990; 07-05-2018 at 12:41 PM.

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner ZeroBoostBuick's Avatar
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    What RickClarke23 said...

    A log along with a wideband would tell the whole story.

  11. #11
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    Have you tried copper plugs rather than iridium or platinum?
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  12. #12
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    Use copper plugs if the motor detonate then cooper will turn liquid and not hurt the motor unlike other plugs

  13. #13
    Attached log and tune

  14. #14
    OK so honestly the log looks pretty good. I just finished up a 17 Whipple Zl1 also that was pullied for 16psi. On 93/meth it runs more timing than you are around 17*. On e85 (flex fuel) we are around 23*. The Compression is 9:8:1 and it made over 900 to the wheels (M6). We used NGK plugs and never had a problem. How much meth are you spraying. I can say we are using quite a bit to keep it happy.

  15. #15
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    7.39.19.933 shows 200KPA, 100% throttle, 3976rpm, 13 degrees and 14.8;1 AFR. the cylinder temperature at that point would be phenomenal.

    similar at 7.42.23.053

    you might get away with that on E85 but with MS109 that would be so hot.
    Last edited by lukearmstrong1990; 07-06-2018 at 10:37 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RickClarke23 View Post
    OK so honestly the log looks pretty good. I just finished up a 17 Whipple Zl1 also that was pullied for 16psi. On 93/meth it runs more timing than you are around 17*. On e85 (flex fuel) we are around 23*. The Compression is 9:8:1 and it made over 900 to the wheels (M6). We used NGK plugs and never had a problem. How much meth are you spraying. I can say we are using quite a bit to keep it happy.
    two 15 dual nozzle Alky control on 7

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by lukearmstrong1990 View Post
    7.39.19.933 shows 200KPA, 100% throttle, 3976rpm, 13 degrees and 14.8;1 AFR. the cylinder temperature at that point would be phenomenal.

    similar at 7.42.23.053

    you might get away with that on E85 but with MS109 that would be so hot.
    How do I go about telling my tuner without pissing him off. Do you think that's the event that took the ceramic?

  18. #18
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    I don't have much gen 5 experience.

    but the porcelain falls out from pre ignition or det related to huge cylinder temp. those logged conditions given it was on 109 and not alcohol would have generated huge cylinder temp resulting in pre igniton. that plug strap would have looked like a tig welding tip at that point. the pre ignition would have smashed the porcelain out.

    I cant be certain but it certainly wouldn't have helped matters along.

    you're in a hard spot. organize a time to have a 1 on 1 chat with him in private. show him the log and ask his opinion. maybe grab some literature that shows what happens to iridium plugs in a PD blown application. get the injectors flow tested to rule them out. you can only present your case with supporting logs and literature and see what he says. just do it diplomatically. if he gets pissed off then so be it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lukearmstrong1990 View Post
    I don't have much gen 5 experience.

    but the porcelain falls out from pre ignition or det related to huge cylinder temp. those logged conditions given it was on 109 and not alcohol would have generated huge cylinder temp resulting in pre igniton. that plug strap would have looked like a tig welding tip at that point. the pre ignition would have smashed the porcelain out.

    I cant be certain but it certainly wouldn't have helped matters along.

    you're in a hard spot. organize a time to have a 1 on 1 chat with him in private. show him the log and ask his opinion. maybe grab some literature that shows what happens to iridium plugs in a PD blown application. get the injectors flow tested to rule them out. you can only present your case with supporting logs and literature and see what he says. just do it diplomatically. if he gets pissed off then so be it.
    I can't find the spots you did in the log. He tells me he's made over 1000hp on those plugs and is a very reputable tuner. I've got two injectors to put in those holes to see what happens. Trying to get different plugs also. What do you know about Brisk plugs??

  20. #20
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    have a browse you'll find a few.

    look for 14-15AFR at 190+KPA MAP. 100% throttle. they seem to occur between 3600-4200rpm

    I've only personally used NGK 7 plugs for all boosted LS stuff. the HP dealer in Aus sells brisk plugs. they only on sell quality gear so I assume they're good.

    I would label your relative to cylinder and get them flow tested. that will either determine faulty injectors causing lean combustion or rule them out as the cause.