Stock 5.3 with turbo. No power and popping in the exhaust.

[scottt28]

Friend's 5.3 does not accelerate well and pops/sputters. It is basically a stock 5.3 - truck intake, factory heads, factory crank and rods and pistons. It's got a inexpensive Chinese turbo. He had a local guy tune it. He took it to the track and had water pouring out of it. The factory head gasket on the drivers side gave out. He broke a piece out of the top of one piston and bent a rod. Now it's back together with a new rod, piston, gaskets, etc but doesn't run right. Mechanically, it looks ok - intake manifold was seated correctly, no vacuum leaks, no oil or fuel or water leaks, new spark plugs.

Codes stored were P0102, P0332, and P1637.

Tune file and log attached.

Would really appreciate comments and suggestions.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

maf sensor isnt properly disabled.
he zeroed out the maf table which isnt required...just leave it stock. set dynamic rpm disable to 8000 rpm. and then switch P0101-P0103 to "Mil on First Error"....be sure to uncheck the SES box to turn the code light off for those codes.


wideband is frozen at .72 lambda. also if your going to tune in wideband lambda then you need the commanded lambda ratio channel to make the lambda error maths function.
cant get any real good data out of the log because its either missing information or the information channel isnt correct.
while im speaking about fuel settings:
the base PE settings should not have any afr commands for fuel ratios in the 11's. this table should be around 12.5-12.7 in most cases. the BE is where all the commanded values for boost go and those should be 11.5 or so like they are now.
Enrichment TPS settings are quite aggressive. The enable map is at a position where it could enable at any time and thus the tps is the only factor which being set to 20% could cause it to engage during some cruise events. it could be dumbed down a bit.
I've never seen a ve table dip quite like yours does around 140-150 kpa. typically boost will require more fuel along at the same rpm when pressure is your only changing factor in load.

you need to inspect your knock sensors for the P0332. if they test correct then your motor may still be hurt which requires investigation.
P1637 is a code for the alternator. which seems to be working fine according to the control module voltage.



if you could get a log with properly functioning wideband and matching commanded ratio channels that would be a great start for getting us information.
can you also log iac counts, idle desired airflow, idle actual airflow....i use these to see if one cylinder is hurt in stock engine applications. it is also good information if you have a cam. does this have a cam?
i suggest you check the cylinder pressures with a compression tester. while your at it do a leak down test. you can rent both from most major parts stores if you dont have one.

[lukearmstrong1990]

question.

popping out intake or exhaust.

popping out intake is generally because its lean or the injection timing it wrong, just like when you're cranking a gen 3 with cam signal fault and it wont start but pops out intake.

popping out exhaust is more along the lines of a spark issue like misfire, spark blowout, flooded with fuel, bad lead or coil.

earth straps not put back on the back of the cylinder head can also cause it.

need some wideband or narrowband data on the log to help more for starting point/direction.

if it ran before and engine control/management components are all the same id be starting mechanically. if it ran before it should run now

[scottt28]

maf sensor isnt properly disabled.
he zeroed out the maf table which isnt required...just leave it stock. set dynamic rpm disable to 8000 rpm. and then switch P0101-P0103 to "Mil on First Error"....be sure to uncheck the SES box to turn the code light off for those codes.


wideband is frozen at .72 lambda. also if your going to tune in wideband lambda then you need the commanded lambda ratio channel to make the lambda error maths function.
cant get any real good data out of the log because its either missing information or the information channel isnt correct.
while im speaking about fuel settings:
the base PE settings should not have any afr commands for fuel ratios in the 11's. this table should be around 12.5-12.7 in most cases. the BE is where all the commanded values for boost go and those should be 11.5 or so like they are now.
Enrichment TPS settings are quite aggressive. The enable map is at a position where it could enable at any time and thus the tps is the only factor which being set to 20% could cause it to engage during some cruise events. it could be dumbed down a bit.
I've never seen a ve table dip quite like yours does around 140-150 kpa. typically boost will require more fuel along at the same rpm when pressure is your only changing factor in load.

you need to inspect your knock sensors for the P0332. if they test correct then your motor may still be hurt which requires investigation.
P1637 is a code for the alternator. which seems to be working fine according to the control module voltage.



if you could get a log with properly functioning wideband and matching commanded ratio channels that would be a great start for getting us information.
can you also log iac counts, idle desired airflow, idle actual airflow....i use these to see if one cylinder is hurt in stock engine applications. it is also good information if you have a cam. does this have a cam?
i suggest you check the cylinder pressures with a compression tester. while your at it do a leak down test. you can rent both from most major parts stores if you dont have one.

Thank you very much for the detailed response. As I mentioned, I'm trying to help out a friend. He had the truck tuned by a professional that has a dyno in the shop. I hate to pick apart a guy that does it full time. It's kinda like a plumber telling a chef how to cook. Still, I opened up the tune and it didn't pass the "sniff test".

1. He has a Innovate wideband. Mine is an AEM. My truck is wired for it, his truck is not. I'll have to get with him to wire the Innovate wideband to work with the HP Tuners interface and take some readings.

2. The alternator seemed to put out around 13 volts, which isn't a ton, but isn't crazy low. Agreed.

3. I noticed the very low PE enable. I think that's way too low. I wonder if the tuner guy was trying to use PE etc as a crutch for the huge dip in the VE table...

4. I believe he said he replaced the knock sensors after I posted the first message. I will confirm.

5. I'm not sure about the cam specs. I will ask and get back to you.

6. The spark tables seemed to be a little high for a stock compression ratio and the use of 93 octane gasoline. The tuner said it made 642 hp to the wheels, which makes me very nervous. It's a stock type 5.3!! If that number is correct, it would explain why it blew the head gasket, broke a piston and bent a rod. I'm not saying it is accurate, I'm just repeating what was told to my friend. Looking at the tune as a non-professional, I have no idea why it ran as good as it did prior to the failure.

I'm going to forward the guidance you provided and I'll get back with you. Thanks again. Much appreciated.

[scottt28]

question.

popping out intake or exhaust.

popping out intake is generally because its lean or the injection timing it wrong, just like when you're cranking a gen 3 with cam signal fault and it wont start but pops out intake.

popping out exhaust is more along the lines of a spark issue like misfire, spark blowout, flooded with fuel, bad lead or coil.

earth straps not put back on the back of the cylinder head can also cause it.

need some wideband or narrowband data on the log to help more for starting point/direction.

if it ran before and engine control/management components are all the same id be starting mechanically. if it ran before it should run now

1. Popping in the exhaust. I talked to him about spark - plugs, wires, firing order. Plugs are new. He says he didn't crack the insulators putting them in... It seems that everything got put back in places correctly after the rebuild. I looked at it myself. We will look again.

2. I thought I heard a rod knock at idle, and I mentioned it. We wrote it off as an exhaust leak or something. Truck is loud. We have to look at that again.

3. We talked about disabling cylinders by killing injectors or pulling plugs wires to see if Idle would change. I also mentioned a hand held pyrometer might help show a dead cylinder. Harbor Freight has em cheap.

4. FORGOT TO MENTION! I LOGGED THIS THING AND IT NEVER SEEMED TO GO INTO CLOSED LOOP. DOESN'T SEEM CORRECT. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE COMPUTER WILL MANAGE AFRS WHEN IT GOES INTO CLOSED LOOP AND IS USING INPUT FROM FACTORY O2 SENSORS WHICH ARE STILL IN PLACE. I CHECKED IT AT VARIOUS RUN TIMES AND ECTS. FANS WERE ON AND ECT GOT TO 203 DEGREES F. NO CLOSED LOOP. I FULLY EXPECTED CLOSED LOOP AT IDLE AND CRUISE TYPE SITUATIONS AFTER IT WARMED UP. IT WAS 100 DEGREES F IN TEXAS THAT DAY. I EXPECTED IT TO BE IN OPEN LOOP BRIEFLY AT START UP AND WHEN IN PE MODE OR WOT.
IS THAT CORRECT??

[lukearmstrong1990]

1. Popping in the exhaust. I talked to him about spark - plugs, wires, firing order. Plugs are new. He says he didn't crack the insulators putting them in... It seems that everything got put back in places correctly after the rebuild. I looked at it myself. We will look again. excessive fuel can cause this because it blows the spark out. your VE table is asking for a mountain of fuel through the 80-120KPA map then drastically reduces after 120KPA. that's not right. first things first but I would do a comp test, check plugs, check leads, check harness earths on back of heads and confirm fuel pressure is stable. then you need some wideband data to move forward.

2. I thought I heard a rod knock at idle, and I mentioned it. We wrote it off as an exhaust leak or something. Truck is loud. We have to look at that again. check over everything mechanically BEFORE you start making radical changes with a laptop

3. We talked about disabling cylinders by killing injectors or pulling plugs wires to see if Idle would change. I also mentioned a hand held pyrometer might help show a dead cylinder. Harbor Freight has em cheap. hand help IR temp gun is great for picking misfires.

4. FORGOT TO MENTION! I LOGGED THIS THING AND IT NEVER SEEMED TO GO INTO CLOSED LOOP. DOESN'T SEEM CORRECT. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE COMPUTER WILL MANAGE AFRS WHEN IT GOES INTO CLOSED LOOP AND IS USING INPUT FROM FACTORY O2 SENSORS WHICH ARE STILL IN PLACE. I CHECKED IT AT VARIOUS RUN TIMES AND ECTS. FANS WERE ON AND ECT GOT TO 203 DEGREES F. NO CLOSED LOOP. I FULLY EXPECTED CLOSED LOOP AT IDLE AND CRUISE TYPE SITUATIONS AFTER IT WARMED UP. IT WAS 100 DEGREES F IN TEXAS THAT DAY. I EXPECTED IT TO BE IN OPEN LOOP BRIEFLY AT START UP AND WHEN IN PE MODE OR WOT.
IS THAT CORRECT??

your closed loop enable coolant temp is set to 141*Celsius. so no you wont see closed loop ever with those values.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

yes, the computer will go into closed loop when setup to do so. this tuner choose to disable it and run the ecu in full sd mode with a wideband to adjust for errors which is recommended. after the process the trims are re-enabled and the ecu just does its thing.

[scottt28]

yes, the computer will go into closed loop when setup to do so. thisod. tuner choose to disable it and run the ecu in full sd mode with a wideband to adjust for errors which is recommended. after the process the trims are re-enabled and the ecu just does its thing.

Understood. We have the same opinion. Tuner never re-enabled the trims. It was an SD tune, but not done correctly in my opinion. Thanks for the confirmation.

Just talked to my buddy. He pulled all the plugs. Last one he pulled, Number 7, had zero gap. It wasn't firing. No... he didn't drop it and it didn't come out of the box that way. He didn't install it that way. He bought a bore scope and looked in the cylinder. Number 7 piston is broken. Part of the crown over the first ring broke off and was rattling around in the cylinder. He obviously doesn't have a ton of run time on it since the damage was minimal. Still, it's not a good thing.

He is being deployed overseas in a month, so this thing is going to sit. I encouraged him to go "talk" to the tuner. Given the all of the factory spec parts (pistons, rods, block, head bolts, compression ratio) and the intended usage, both of which were communicated to the tuner, I think he got a bad deal. That tune isn't right.

Thanks to the guys that took the time to review the tune and the log. It is appreciated. Thank you very much. Have a good weekend.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

That really sucks.
I was afraid the engine was still hurt when i saw that knock sensor code.