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Thread: 4L80E swapped 06 vortec max disappointment

  1. #1
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    4L80E swapped 06 vortec max disappointment

    Hi all
    2006 vortec max, 4.10 gear, 4wd.
    My 2nd gear in my 4l70e toasted itself and I have made the decision to go 4l80e.
    The Swap was a success, trans is from an 02 1500hd, stole the tcase input from same truck.. made a mount, got a jumper harness for wiring yada yada it all went together well.
    I segment swapped the ecm with a similar OS, 4l80e equipped file.
    Low throttle, cruising around the truck is great.. no CEL or anything.

    When you drop the hammer, it really seems like it?s missing quite a bit of jam compared to the 4L70E. I know the 2.4 first gear doesn?t help this but I have removed 80% torque management, bumped power enrichment to a 1.19 multiplier across the board and followed quite a few youtubers direction on the rest (0?d the ect spark table, modified regular spark tables etc etc)
    It still doesn?t feel as it?s got as much jam as when it has the 4L70E with the stock tune.
    I need to get on datalogging it with a wideband but I was wondering in the time being if someone can have a look at my tune and let me know if I am missing something obvious.
    Don?t know how I can attatch a file here but I can send it via email if that works.
    Thanks a bunch!
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by 06vortecmax; 08-11-2018 at 09:56 PM.

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  3. #3
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    Thanks, thought i could be successful trying to upload the attatchment with my iphone but iwasnt successful. lol. this computer is 10 years behind the times

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    Anyone? Thanks

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    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    You could disable abuse mode and raise the ETC limits to 100% for the whole chart. Then lower the PE enable torque down to 80%.

    Not sure what else to say. Add more power.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    80's are dogs in vehicles that don't need them. Unlikely to "tune around" the long first gear and heavy rotating mass. I've un-done 80 swaps on several 1500s. If they aren't making over 500 HP, a well built 60 is better fit and always feels better to the owner. By well-built, I don't mean a "rebuild" from the local mom-n-pop trans shop.
    Steve Williams
    TunedbyFrost.com


  7. #7
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    I've never had the 4l70 but I must say, after putting 4l80e into my lightweight nissan chassis, it isn't light anymore.

    I "brag" (more like complain) all the time about how heavy that trans is and how much power it seems to suck out of the drivetrain.

    Even just pushing the car around it feels 'twice as heavy' trying to turn that driveshaft.

    Pretty amazing how slow the car moves at low throttle positions. Makes it really feel like a boat.

    But when I put down the pedal she really rips. and the trans doesn't ever seem to slip or break no matter how I set the shift character, even though its stock.

    Pretty amazing but meh, the people behind me in publix always get to hear about how heavy that shit is.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5FDP View Post
    You could disable abuse mode and raise the ETC limits to 100% for the whole chart. Then lower the PE enable torque down to 80%.

    Not sure what else to say. Add more power.
    Perfect thanks for your response I will try that.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    80's are dogs in vehicles that don't need them. Unlikely to "tune around" the long first gear and heavy rotating mass. I've un-done 80 swaps on several 1500s. If they aren't making over 500 HP, a well built 60 is better fit and always feels better to the owner. By well-built, I don't mean a "rebuild" from the local mom-n-pop trans shop.
    ^^^ I agree and the only person I would let build me a 4l60e is Dana from Probuilt automatics (700r4l60e.com)
    I've bought his 700r4 rebuild kits before and DIY my trans in the past, Dana gave me a HUGE list of "special things" like sanding and filing certain parts that makes all the difference.


    Only reason I don't use one now is because of the price. My car is ultra budget. Its worth it if you can afford it though.
    Last edited by kingtal0n; 08-12-2018 at 09:46 PM.

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    That?s what I keep thinking. The converter must add to the slouch feeling also.
    The truck is still quick.. more reliable for the towing that it gets put through but if my 70 was functioning properly .. a stock Vmax vs mine with the 80.. I?m sure the stock truck would beat mine up lol.
    Ah well. Maybe time for a Texas speed low lift truck cam and a converter..☺️

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06vortecmax View Post
    That?s what I keep thinking. The converter must add to the slouch feeling also.
    The truck is still quick.. more reliable for the towing that it gets put through but if my 70 was functioning properly .. a stock Vmax vs mine with the 80.. I?m sure the stock truck would beat mine up lol.
    Ah well. Maybe time for a Texas speed low lift truck cam and a converter..☺️

    Oh my. The converter is the heart of a build. Perhaps the most important thing of all. It will make all the difference.

    Since I was like 18 or 20 years old I wanted a quality 9.5" converter behind a V8. I waited 15~ years to finally do the 'LS' swap, mainly just so I could get my hands on a real converter and put it to work.

    It was worth waiting for... used the tightest, lowest stall, most daily drivable 9.5" Yank 2800 for 4l80e and it is everything I had hoped for. Use a quality lockup unit and it will be meow

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    anyone that requests overdrive i usually recommend the 4l60 because i can do a few minor rebuilding updates and make them just as good without adding additional rotating weight or friction drag from un-applied clutch circuits.

    im no transmission master and i typically specialize in pg or 400's but i do get asked to go through 4l60's at least 6-9 times a year depending on the track carnage rate and refresh cycles.
    if you ever get the chance to back to back a trans swap take it. i got the opportunity to track pull a powerglide in a 700hp 280" rail and it made 780hp @ 6800 (according to a mustang dyno) with 10 high drum clutches and an extra wide band. The fastest pass was ~8.7 @ 155. I thought that trans was overkill so i rebuilt it really fast by swapping my stock width band and 7 clutch drum conversion from my 408 top sportsman trans into it and it made a pass of 8.32 @ 164. the drag from 10 clutches causes too much drag in first when they arent applied so we picked up speed around the 60' but it showed gains until the end of the 1/4.

    if you want to know more about transmission internal losses find one of the SA performance transmission books. My powerglide book goes through dirt track to high hp applications and the differences are night and day. what circle track does to reduce rotating loss in a powerglide is very fascinating.

    sorry for the long post. im sitting in an engineering seminar trying to not pass out. short answer...i agree the 80e was not the best move.
    rdrfabrication@gmail.com
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    All good either way.. if performance takes a back seat..as long as the tow performance is where it needs I?m still happy with the direction of this thing but definately a trade off in day to day driving. Thanks for all the input

  14. #14
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    Drive any 6.0 hd 4l80E truck back to back with a 1500 4l60E and the transmissions are night and day different in terms of perceived feel based on that doggy feeling 4l80E. I in fact would rather pull my car trailer up to about 5500 lbs loaded with a half ton 5.3 than my 1500hd 6.0 truck cause of the feeling of more go...

  15. #15
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    I saw this a long time ago, its what helped me make my decision to 4l80e over a six speed originally.
    I was like "Eh, not too bad...."

    4L60vs4L80.png
    https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...esults-503358/


    Lies LIES! Dirty filthy lieseses lol jk

    hehe. But 6 ft*lbs at 800rpm is a kinda alot...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    80's are dogs in vehicles that don't need them. Unlikely to "tune around" the long first gear and heavy rotating mass. I've un-done 80 swaps on several 1500s. If they aren't making over 500 HP, a well built 60 is better fit and always feels better to the owner. By well-built, I don't mean a "rebuild" from the local mom-n-pop trans shop.
    I did not notice a difference between 4L65E and 4L85E in my sub 400 HP 5.7L Vortec powered Express van and I had 3.42 gears at the time. I used the factory 4.3 converter at the time of the swap. After a good tune the 4L85E equaled or even surpassed the 4L65E in all respects. I had a very well built 4L65E and it still failed in 40K miles. Junkyard 4l85E is still going strong. I would trade a bit of performance for reliability any day of the week on a daily driver/tow rig.

  17. #17
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    Tuned 4L60E
    https://youtu.be/NPHR6mzCDoY

    Tuned 4L80E
    https://youtu.be/yXTXqMCkF34

    Then when I felt like messing with it, I added my own custom built CAI setup with Tahoe electric fans.
    https://youtu.be/WNOm2otMTA4

    For 3 tons of fullsize Express conversion van with a 350 Vortec with a mild cam at the time I though it moved very well.

  18. #18
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    For what it's worth like stated above the converter is the make it or break it of any trans. I'm rwd with a little more than mild cam and a 9.5" fti 3800 hard hit stall. When the truck was running the stock re-stalled 12" getting tight around 2500rpm it felt like a dog in 1st gear after the 80e. I'm also sporting the factory 3.42 rear gears with a mini spool. Mind you I swapped from an nv3500 so I really felt the parasitic drag. No denying its a big pig compared to the 5 speed. But Since I swapped the stock re-stall for the 3800 hard hit from fti it's a whole new animal. Cant say enough good things about FTI. depending on where and how long, how heavy you tow I wouldn't hesitate to go with a 2800-3000 stall with a quality lockup clutch/clutches. And one very efficient cooler setup.
    97 ext cab short bed silverado 5.7 411 swap, edelbrock 29135 intake, factory unported 906 heads milled .035 thou. factory press in rocker studs & rockers, comp 787 retainers & stock locks, ls6 springs. Comp cams 08-503-8 4l80e swap & Fti 3800 hard hit stall.

    86 SWB chevy crate vortec engine from scoggin dickey Chevrolet, mild unknown cam The wife's truck

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    anyone that requests overdrive i usually recommend the 4l60 because i can do a few minor rebuilding updates and make them just as good without adding additional rotating weight or friction drag from un-applied clutch circuits.

    im no transmission master and i typically specialize in pg or 400's but i do get asked to go through 4l60's at least 6-9 times a year depending on the track carnage rate and refresh cycles.
    if you ever get the chance to back to back a trans swap take it. i got the opportunity to track pull a powerglide in a 700hp 280" rail and it made 780hp @ 6800 (according to a mustang dyno) with 10 high drum clutches and an extra wide band. The fastest pass was ~8.7 @ 155. I thought that trans was overkill so i rebuilt it really fast by swapping my stock width band and 7 clutch drum conversion from my 408 top sportsman trans into it and it made a pass of 8.32 @ 164. the drag from 10 clutches causes too much drag in first when they arent applied so we picked up speed around the 60' but it showed gains until the end of the 1/4.

    if you want to know more about transmission internal losses find one of the SA performance transmission books. My powerglide book goes through dirt track to high hp applications and the differences are night and day. what circle track does to reduce rotating loss in a powerglide is very fascinating.

    sorry for the long post. im sitting in an engineering seminar trying to not pass out. short answer...i agree the 80e was not the best move.
    Those are some huge gains. Most people don't realise information like this.

    FYI small piece of tobacco in the corner of the eye will keep your eyes open, when you close em burns like hell makes you open them again.. Was flying Navy during an unfriendly war, long flights needed to stay awake.

  20. #20
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    used to ranger dip with coffee pouches when i was out on patrol. dont think i ever left the JERRV hahaha
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    2016 GMC 3500 Denali Diesel
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

    Ecotec help can be found here:
    LNF-http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...357-LNF-Guides
    LSJ-http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...965-LSJ-Guides